03-01-2014, 08:50 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Feb 2014
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Can angels serve Princes, or demons serve Archangels?
Obviously they may be used as tools, but can they be straight-up Servitors?
Like if a Mercurian servitor of Jordi hurts some poachers, she becomes dissonant and may Fall - but what if she still believes in Jordi's mission (just not in her role as a friend of Man). Is there any way she can remain loyal to Jordi without being Redeemed? Can Jordi create a Heart for an Impudite or protect her from Dominic in any way? Or alternatively, if Vapula creates a Seraph, can the Seraph serve him? There are so many unethical studies that would benefit from a Seraph's close reading... would serving the truth rather than the Divine Plan be a thing that makes a Seraph fall? If not, can Vapula create a Heart for a Seraph, and/or protect him from the other Princes? Can he hide the Seraph's nature under enough "upgrades"? |
03-01-2014, 10:40 AM | #2 | ||||||||
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Re: Can angels serve Princes, or demons serve Archangels?
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Your campaign may, of course, vary on any or all of these points, but those are pretty much the answers in the game as written. |
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03-03-2014, 05:27 PM | #3 | ||||
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Frozen Wastelands of NH
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Re: Can angels serve Princes, or demons serve Archangels?
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(This came up in the SSO campaign, as part of the backstory, where it was attempted -- the result of binding a demon to an angelic Heart caused, essentially, the effects of a slow-motion attempt at redemption (because the Heart was a direct conduit between the purity of an angelic Word and the Self of a still-moderately-selfish demon), which was very painful and unpleasant for the demonic volunteer. On the plus side, they got some Heart-shard ingredients out of the experiment. In parallel, having one's self/Heart be bound to a Selfish Word (of a Prince), for an angel, would probably result in a Fall pretty quickly. Or madness. Or possibly both.) If your campaign views a Heart as only a locational beacon allowing someone to ascend to it, and a repository for dissonance conditions, then you can make different rulings, of course! (But you might then want to eliminate the 3 levels of Discord caused by destroying a Heart, as it would be less of a "wrench" to one's Self. Or you could call it a booby-trap that Superiors (especially Princes) stick in the Heart.) Quote:
It's the whole "demons are Selfish" thing. Quote:
VapuTech things that can create angels are certainly plot-devices, if you want one, but I'd suggest that they mesh better if there's a middle-stage -- say, some kind of weird demonling that was forced into a Force-configuration that is unstable and open to Symphonic influence. >_> (#mayhavedonethis #theyblowupsometimes) Quote:
Protected from other Princes? Well, the first defense is keeping it hidden. The second defense would be going, "MY experimental subject! Keep your mitts off!" and not allowing the Seraph to ever go anywhere that someone else (with a desire to possess the Seraph or kill it before Vapula gets some annoying idea) could overpower the Seraph's keepers. Protective coloration? This is very much up to the GM, as to whether the angelic nature could be hidden in Hell. For More Plot Potential, I would have it be difficult and/or risky, but possible, with the degree of difficulty depending on the campaign tone. In one game, it might be appropriate for angels to hide in Hell by assuming their vessel seemings and mostly keeping their mouths shut (remember, no lies in angelic! or in Helltongue, either, even if you know it...), or by bluffing with "You don't think I'm a very clean Shedite?" (the Kyriotate blinks its eyes winningly), or by having some minor sort of disguise (these stick-on tattoos are logically the best course of action for this mission). In another game, the most cursory glance would reveal the divine nature of the angel, causing damned souls to kneel and beg for aid, clinging to the angel's wings, while demons yelped and ran and/or invoked their Prince(s) -- unless some powerful artifact were at work to conceal things. (And even then, the artifact might have a limited duration.)
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03-04-2014, 12:08 PM | #4 | |
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Re: Can angels serve Princes, or demons serve Archangels?
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#2: I'm reminded of a mini-campaign my group ran, where a bunch of renegades and outcasts got sent on a suicide mission into Hell by Yves to disrupt a ceremony involving a diabolical artefact made out of Hitler's skull and a Force that used to be attached to Legion. For the first iteration of that plot, the angels had devices to disguise them as damned souls; the second party to run through it was mostly angels, so they instead got disguised as their Fallen counterparts. (Though I wasn't there for the second, so can't remember if the Malakite in that party was pretending to be a Lilim or a damned human.) Apparently my Theft Balseraph's odds of redemption kept fluctuating around the default, since he was frequently the most disturbingly eager to help others at his own expense, but relied almost exclusively on Balseraph resonance to get things done. |
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03-04-2014, 04:56 PM | #5 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: between keyboard and chair
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Re: Can angels serve Princes, or demons serve Archangels?
I seem to recall a reference somewhere that angels take Dissonance when they speak Helltongue - but I don't recall whether that's canon or fan-created.
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Rob Kelk “Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.” – Bernard Baruch, Deming (New Mexico) Headlight, 6 January 1950 No longer reading these forums regularly. |
03-04-2014, 07:58 PM | #6 | |
In Nomine Line Editor
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Frozen Wastelands of NH
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Re: Can angels serve Princes, or demons serve Archangels?
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Of course, anyone pretending to be a Habbalite can say, "Of COURSE I'm an angel!" and be just fine. >_>
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--Beth Shamelessly adding Superiors: Lilith, GURPS Sparrials, and her fiction page to her .sig (the latter is not precisely gaming related) |
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03-04-2014, 08:59 PM | #7 | |
Petitioner: Word of IN Filk
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Longmont, CO
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Re: Can angels serve Princes, or demons serve Archangels?
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“It's not railroading if you offer the PCs tickets and they stampede to the box office, waving their money. Metaphorically speaking” --Elizabeth McCoy, In Nomine Line Editor Author: "What Doesn't Kill Me Makes Me Stronger" |
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03-04-2014, 10:43 PM | #8 |
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Re: Can angels serve Princes, or demons serve Archangels?
Id say NO with a Capital N.
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03-05-2014, 10:53 AM | #9 |
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Birthplace of the Worst Pizza on the Planet
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Re: Can angels serve Princes, or demons serve Archangels?
FWIW, Lilith is ALWAYS an equal opportunity employer.
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03-05-2014, 11:52 AM | #10 |
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Re: Can angels serve Princes, or demons serve Archangels?
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angels, demons |
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