Are Powers Overpriced?

[Andreas]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

Can you give some examples?

Mind Reading with a cosmic modular abilities (IQ skills only) alternate ability. That would give you very inexpensive access to all IQ skills when you aren't reading minds. It is even possible to bring the cost down far below 1 point per level of CMA if you add some more limitations.

[dataweaver]

The idea of Modular Abilities as an Alternate Ability strikes me as just wrong…

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

The idea of Modular Abilities as an Alternate Ability strikes me as just wrong…

I've done it before

• Lightning storm: Innate Attack (Burn 9d) (Bombardment 15, -5%; Area Affect (4yds radius), +100%; Surge, +20%; Overhead, +30%; Cost Fatigue (3), -15%; Limited use 4/day. -20%; Magical -10%; Requires Incarnation, -5%; Requires Gestures, -5%) [86]
• Stinking Cloud: Affliction (Retrenching, +50%; Area Affect (4yds radius), +100%; Drifting, +20%; Persistent, +40%; Respiratory Agent, +50%; Cost Fatigue (2), -10%; Limited use 4/day. -20%; Magical -10%, Environmental (Wind/Rain) -5%; Requires Incarnation, -5%; Requires Gestures, -5%) [31/5 = 7]
• Mana Bolt: Innate Attack (Cr 1d) (Affect Insubstantial, +20%; Malediction (Speed/Range), +150%; No Knockback -10%; Magical -10%; Requires Incarnation, -5%; Requires Gestures, -5%) [12/5 = 3]
• Modular Abilities (Super- Memorization) (1,1,1,2,2,2,2,4,4,4,8) (Spells Only -20%, Perpetration Required 1 hr/point -50%) [30/5 = 6]

the Modular Abilities was there to given them the versatility element on top of the bread and butter powers

[ericthered]

When I combine modular abilities with alternative abilities, I like to use to modulars to buy the alternatives, rather buying the modular abilities with alternative abilities. Somehow that feels better.

I get most annoyed with alternate abilities when its used on several abilities that are only linked by "Its magic!". I know its RAW, but it still bugs me. Like Flight, Healing, and Illusion.

[AlexanderHowl]

I tend to group alternate abilities by type (attack, defense, movement, and utility) in my games. Attacks can only be alternate abilities of attacks, defenses can only be alternate abilities of defenses, movement abilities can only be alternate abilities of movement abilities, and utility abilities can only be alternate abilities of utility abilities. While it requires me to rebuild some of the suggested characters from Supers, it gives me thematic control over alternate abilities and gives a place for Modular Abilities and/or Wildcard Powers (since they can usually cross themes).

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

the Modular Abilities was there to given them the versatility element on top of the bread and butter powers

Exactly why Sorcery includes one (relabeled as "Sorcerous Empowerment"). It's given a special place as the base ability to keep the math simple -- always the most expensive, so all other spells are always 1/5 price. And like any AA, if you're using another spell, you lose your ability to improvise spells which comes from the MA.

I wouldn't let people buy abilities to go into an MA slot as an AA at 1/5th price, claiming they're alternates because you can't have them both slotted at once. But I don't see a problem with them buying an entire AA group with one MA slot -- that is, full price for the most expensive, plus 1/5th for each other ability in that group. The whole AA group would get traded out at once for something else. Break up the abilities into one-ability "groups", and they each cost full price (times the MA multiplier), just as if AAs weren't involved.

[martinl]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

Are Abilities without the Alternate Abilities discount too expensive?

Abilities are virtually impossible to balance properly even in highly constrained situations.

In computer games, where actions and powers are on extremely limited lists controlled entirely by the developers, people debate balance endlessly. In a setting and power level and 'core-gamplay task' agnostic system like GURPS balance is harder by orders of magnitude. Balance in the GURPS power design system where an entire extra layer of customization is possible is ... tenuous at best.

Here's the thing though - in exchange for requiring GM oversight for power balance, you get massive flexibility in power design. In my opinion power balance in RPGs is overrated and flexibility is fun, so this is an easy compromise for me to make.

[AlexanderHowl]

If an ability duplicates gear, get the gear instead (which can be modified Signature Gear through the equipment rules in Supers). The utility of certain powers for TL8 superheroes is questionable anyway, especially when a character can take High TL+1 and purchase Flying Powered Combat Armor for three times the standard cost (spending 33 CP on Signature Gear is worth it to save over five times as much on defenses and mobility).

[dataweaver]

That's Points-Wise, but Concept-Foolish. “You can't play a Superman expie because a TL9 Battlesuit is better” would pretty much kill a Supers game.

That said, it suggests a possible alternative: if you want an ability that duplicates gear, you might pay for it as if it was Signature Gear, possibly with Enhancements that serve as the opposite of the Gadget Limitations (e.g., Can't Be Stolen and Unbreakable) — although one of the principles of the Powers system is that you generally can be deprived of your powers, so maybe not.

It still counts as an innate ability rather than a piece of equipment; you're just paying a different point cost than you would if you were building it off of the regular advantages. And of course, you'd only go this route if it's cheaper.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

That said, it suggests a possible alternative: if you want an ability that duplicates gear, you might pay for it as if it was Signature Gear

For stuff that actually duplicates gear, I'd be happy with Signature Gear, an appropriate level of Payload, and perhaps an extra arm if it's device that normally requires a limb but doesn't for you. The problem is with things that are similar to gear, and not significantly better, but not close enough that you can just call them gear.