Is Doing Nothing to avoid consciousness HT check an option when Stunned?

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

There is always a HT check when you pass 0 HT and this is not on your Turn and not related to your actions and is avoidable by exotic Advantages only.

This is not the case so far as I can tell. B380 and B419 don't mention it.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Rupert

This is not the case so far as I can tell. B380 and B419 don't mention it.

<shrug> Word of Kromm the last time we went around this sort of thing. It is what I had assumed all these years.

If it helps think of it this way, some HT rolls are the result of damage taken and other HT rolls are the results of the player's activity. Damage related rolls occur when the damage is inflicted and the other sort when the player attempts the risky action i.e. when he tries to take actions other than Do Nothing when at 0 HP or less.

[zedlopez]

Originally Posted by Rupert

This is not the case so far as I can tell. B380 and B419 don't mention it.

I didn't know this either until searching just now after Fred Brackin mentioned it.

It's in the unofficial FAQ. http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...0&postcount=43

And I see this is how it's written in Discworld, too. Don't have DFRPG handy to check.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Rupert

This is not the case so far as I can tell. B380 and B419 don't mention it.

It's mentioned, just poorly worded.

The Exception (Do Nothing) occurs structurally after the line: "Success means you can act normally, but must roll again every turn to continue functioning."

The implication being that the Exception pertains to the 'every turn' rolls, not the initial "now that you're at or below 0 HP roll".

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

It's mentioned, just poorly worded.

The Exception (Do Nothing) occurs structurally after the line: "Success means you can act normally, but must roll again every turn to continue functioning."

The implication being that the Exception pertains to the 'every turn' rolls, not the initial "now that you're at or below 0 HP roll".

Well, I still don't see it. B419 says "0 HP or less – You are in immediate danger of collapse. In addition to the above effects, make a HT roll at the start of your next turn,...", so no roll required the instant you hit 0HP.

B380 says "If you have zero or fewer HP left, you are hanging onto consciousness through sheer willpower and adrenaline – or are barely holding together, if you’re a machine. You must roll vs. HT each turn to avoid falling unconscious.", which is a little more ambiguous, but still says nothing about rolling as soon as you hit 0HP.

What's more the example on B419 does not show a roll being required at the instant Frederick hits 0HP.

I can't see the FAQ/Errata as being anything other than a change to the rules. The new Dungeon Fantasy rules do imply an immediate roll, saying "In addition the above effects, you must roll vs. HT every turn (including the one on which you were injured)", but the parenthetical text is not in GURPS proper.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Hellboy

Recovery from stun does sort of seem like a function though.

Isn't it possible to have an advantage that gives a bonus to stun recovery rolls and tack on a 'requires IQ/skill roll' sort of limitation to it? Would also seem like a conscious function and not doing nothing, even if it is a Do Nothing maneuver which enables it.

Do Nothing allows talking and a few other things, so it is not literally doing nothing.

[sir_pudding]

See Stun is Fun in GURPS Horror.

[Skarg]

I'm now feeling less sloppy about not noticing the shift in 4e, since I now think I get that I was confused this was about 4e in general, but that the question of this thread seems to be about a rule change in DFRPG, not the way it's listed in 4e Basic.

That is, in my 4e Basic Set, I am not seeing a benefit of Do Nothing. The description of Do Nothing on B364 doesn't say anything about getting out of consciousness checks. The Effects of Injury section on B380 says <0 HP you have to roll every turn to stay conscious. (And the Major Wound rule gives a HT roll where a miss by 5 causes immediate unconsciousness.)

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Skarg

I'm now feeling less sloppy about not noticing the shift in 4e, since I now think I get that I was confused this was about 4e in general, but that the question of this thread seems to be about a rule change in DFRPG, not the way it's listed in 4e Basic.

That is, in my 4e Basic Set, I am not seeing a benefit of Do Nothing. The description of Do Nothing on B364 doesn't say anything about getting out of consciousness checks. The Effects of Injury section on B380 says <0 HP you have to roll every turn to stay conscious. (And the Major Wound rule gives a HT roll where a miss by 5 causes immediate unconsciousness.)

See B419, under HT 0 and after Exception. This rule has been here since the first printing.

The only relevant "change" in Dungeon Fantasy is the clarification of "including the one on which you were injured" and that isn't a new rule, but just a clearer statement of the intent of the GURPS rule (as stated in the FAQ).

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Hellboy

One interesting bit I noticed is that Do Nothing allows a HT check for Stun OR an IQ check for Mental Stun...

So if both happens, since it is "or" and not "and" I figure you can only choose to make one or the other. IMO the HT check should probably take priority since that'd be more instinctive.

If you allow both, maybe a -2 for "doing two things at once" penalty? :)

"Or" in GURPS is almost never exclusive unless it is preceded by "either". You get both rolls.