Updating the vampire

[RedMattis]

I see pros and cons to both approaches.

Something like a VtM Blood Pool gives you a bit of a feeling of something which runs on blood like a robot runs on batteries.

Dependency/Restricted Diet/Draining gives a more typical feeling of an undead monster which eats on human blood.

I generally prefer the second one as well, but I can see nr.1 being more interesting from a player's POV if they are playing as a vampire.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by maximara

Actually you can due both with Striking ST (+5 for each +1) or if you think that is too much a point bonanza an inverted Lifting ST (ie -3 for each -1):

ST+7 [70] + Striking ST+3 [15]: 85

ST+10 [100] + Lifting ST-3 [-9]: 91

I just realized that there is no "point bonanza" as the ST+10 [100] would also increase HP which is [2] level. So to keep the HP the first should be:

ST+7 [70] + Striking ST+3 [15] + HP+3 [6]: 91

[AlexanderHowl]

Originally Posted by RedMattis

I see pros and cons to both approaches.

Something like a VtM Blood Pool gives you a bit of a feeling of something which runs on blood like a robot runs on batteries.

Dependency/Restricted Diet/Draining gives a more typical feeling of an undead monster which eats on human blood.

I generally prefer the second one as well, but I can see nr.1 being more interesting from a player's POV if they are playing as a vampire.

It really depends on the setting. Now, ER (Vampire; Special Recharge, Leech, -70%) seems like a good deal, but you would likely need a minimum of Leech (Accelerated Healing, +25%; Blood Agent, -40%; Heals ER Only, -20%; No Signature, +20%; Steals FP, -25%) [15] to be able to avoid leaving massive piles of corpses and/or victims, so you need a high enough ER to make it worthwhile. Of course, that Leech could be an alternative attack of Leech (Accelerated Healing, +25%; Blood Agent, -40%; No Signature, +20%; Steals FP, -25%) [20].

While it might seem odd, many vampires in folklore seem to steal FP rather than HP, especially in the form of sleep. For example, you could have Leech (Accelerated Healing, +25%; Blood Agent, -40%; Hazard, Missing Sleep, +50%; Heals ER, +30%; No Signature, +20%; Steals FP, -25%) [45] represent a vampire that steals the dreams of their victims rather than the blood of their victims, with their victims slowly falling apart as they suffer the mental and physical effects of sleep deprivation. Since their attacks would be subtle, they could occur during activities like kissing, with the victim dropping to -1 × FP within 20+ seconds of kissing.

[LokRobster]

Has anyone done stats for the Twilight Vampire set?

Reading the book made me laugh heartily many times...
some highlights:
Incredible strength (crushing car doors by accident almost)
“Weakness to sunlight” in vampire lore becomes “unnatural feature: sparkly”
No weakness to holy symbols, no Dread to anything, dogs don’t react to their undeadness.
Super fast and Dexterous
Stone-like skin DR that makes them nigh unto invulnerable to almost any damage except werewolf claws/strength {plot variable}.
Bullets and knives don’t do anything to them; literally invulnerable to the weapons of man (except fire).
Able to live off livestock blood, they just don’t like it, and usually don’t bother. Have the berserk/bad temper/bloodlust hunger thing usually.

Weird Additions to Vampire Lore:
Each vampire has one super power: mind reading (touch and ranged), precog, super strength (more than car crushing scale I guess), emotion control others, tele-pain causation, tele-numb/freeze-other action, shield others (stop other vampires’ powerz), illusion, earth bending (yeah from Avatar), Detect (others’ powers), Detect (emotional connections), electrocute-taser touch, Tracking, Wish... those are just examples of powers mentioned the books.

The only weakness of Twilight Vampires is actual fire. Normal, mundane fire burns them dead no problem. They may actually be a little flammable, that’s not really clear.
The Big Bad Vampire Dudes carry a portable flamethrower to put quick permanent ends to their enemies.

I don’t get why all vampires don’t prep for battles by loading up on incendiary weaponry, but only the Bad Guys seem to think of it... I don’t believe the author ever gave a moment’s thought to things we take for granted like White Phosphorus grenades, napalm, piles of black powder, gasoline, propane tanks, automatic rifles with tracer rounds, etc.

[RedMattis]

Weakness to sunlight is more of a recent Hollywood thing.

With that said, Twilight Vampires basically seem like superman and his super-buddies except with dark-and-emo hunger. I think Martian Manhunter wants his weakness to fire back.

Seriously though, if you want to have Twilight Vampires acting as player characters and fighting things of comparable power you should look at GURPS SUPERS. Because it is basically a Dark-Supers campaign with some unintentional narrative campiness.

Or nerf them into the ground and have Dracula show up at some point to laugh at them for not being 'real' vampires. (Until someone throws a garlic flower in Dracula's general direction anyway)

[Flyndaran]

It seems to just massively exaggerate the issue of all uber powerful supernatural monster species. Why do they hide and why don't they control the world? Don't give me this modern humans outnumber them and have loads of weapons.
That's now and arguable. It doesn't explain why they supposedly went into hiding centuries ago when it was golden age Supermen vs. angry mobs with pointy metal sticks.

With unavoidable weaknesses, humanity has a fighting chance especially with knowledge. That gives a reason for sliding into mythological confusion and false information.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by LokRobster

Has anyone done stats for the Twilight Vampire set? [snip]

I don’t believe the author ever gave a moment’s thought to things [FULL STOP]

Bolding mine. Fixed that for you. ;)

[AlexanderHowl]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

It seems to just massively exaggerate the issue of all uber powerful supernatural monster species. Why do they hide and why don't they control the world? Don't give me this modern humans outnumber them and have loads of weapons.
That's now and arguable. It doesn't explain why they supposedly went into hiding centuries ago when it was golden age Supermen vs. angry mobs with pointy metal sticks.

With unavoidable weaknesses, humanity has a fighting chance especially with knowledge. That gives a reason for sliding into mythological confusion and false information.

I have to agree. There needs to be a reason for vampires to not control the Earth. In GURPS terms, it could be explained that a vampire must exchange one or more levels of Will for a new Ally (the new vampire). While they could regain the Will through spending CP, they would be more vulnerable to other vampires until they do so, meaning that they would be reluctant to create new vampires.

That reluctance would translate to a low reproduction rate, so vampires would suffer to loss of one vampire more than humans would one human. Since vampires are inherently selfish creatures, they would expect other vampires to sacrifice themselves to expand vampire numbers. By the time that it became obvious that other vampires were not, their numbers would have been reduced to the point where hiding would have been advisable.

[Flyndaran]

There was a Canadian vampire series I really liked. One interesting plot point was that they are uncontrollably and violently territorial with others of their own kind that aren't in their first year or two, IIRC.

(I also just loved how the character went to sleep like dropping dead, and woke up like someone just electro-shocked into life. Nice imagery.)

[Johnny1A.2]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I have to agree. There needs to be a reason for vampires to not control the Earth. In GURPS terms, it could be explained that a vampire must exchange one or more levels of Will for a new Ally (the new vampire). While they could regain the Will through spending CP, they would be more vulnerable to other vampires until they do so, meaning that they would be reluctant to create new vampires.

That reluctance would translate to a low reproduction rate, so vampires would suffer to loss of one vampire more than humans would one human. Since vampires are inherently selfish creatures, they would expect other vampires to sacrifice themselves to expand vampire numbers. By the time that it became obvious that other vampires were not, their numbers would have been reduced to the point where hiding would have been advisable.

]

Some other considerations:

Also...there had to be a first vampire to start the chain of 'infection'. Maybe there just haven't been actual vampires all that long, just a few centuries.

If there are more than one 'progenitor' vampires, then maybe there are vampire tribes, vampires 'descended' from different 'first vampires' and they don't get on. It might be that they never gained control of the world because as soon as one tribe starts to pick up power and I influence, the others combine against them and pull them down.

Which suggests that maybe vampires have been beaten to the verge of extinction, or even entirely wiped out, more than once in the past, but the scourge reappears when a new first vampire happens. A goal of the campaign might be to learn how first vampires happen and how to stop it. Maybe that the Ultimate Secret of the senior vampires.

Or maybe vampires do rule the world in secret. It might be that their weaknesses are such that they are deadly threats one on one, but if the whole world knew about them they'd be overwhelmingly outnumbered and wiped out, so they rule from behind the scenes, using mortal physical and social and economic power as weapons and defenses. Fighting vampires might mean you have to make sure your mortgage can't be foreclosed just as much as knowing where to stake one.

Which might also mean that some vampires are in positions of great power, and some are not. Maybe that vampire that runs BigCo Inc. could call in the FBI and the CIA and the FSB and MI6 against you if he wanted, but fortunately for you, that vampire stalking your best buddy is a lone wolf and nobody cares if you stake him. Vampire politics might get very complicated, and parallel/direct mortal politics.

If there are multiple 'tribes descended' from different progenitor vampires, one tribe might rule America in secret, another might rule France. Or various combinations. Or maybe social class distinctions are vampire driven behind the scenes. Coke and Pepsi might be controlled by rival tribes.

Here's a variation: Vampire 'tribes' are all the vampires descended from a given first progenitor. A new Tribe only appears when a new first vampire happens (however that happens). Vampire clans are subsets of Tribes, a clan is all the vampires 'descendant' of a common 'ancestral' vampire all of whose 'ancestors' are gone. They're all still the same Tribe and still allied to each other (thought they might hate each other) and instinctively against other Tribes, but they fight each other when not fighting other Tribes.

So if Progenitor and all his senior offspring are gone, the next 'generation' are now Clan heads within their Tribe. Which means they'll have to pick a leader from among themselves somehow to deal with other Tribes. A Clan splits when its top vampire is destroyed. All of which might be reflected in mortal politics.

So maybe the American colonies broke away from Britain when an existing Vampire Clan split into two after a senior vampire bought it in the 1760s and their clans quarreled. Maybe the 'American clan' split again in the 1850s, but the clan in charge of the north managed to retain control of the southern clan territories (maybe they wiped out the southern clan).

But the British and American Clans are still all part of the same Tribe, and tend to line up against the Tribes that control Russia and the Middle East and so on.

On a smaller scale, you might see waves of corporate mergers, acquisitions, and spin-offs in response the new clans forming behind the scenes.

"Congratulation, Joe! When you staked Lord Rupert, you split Nestle into three companies, and caused the Labour Party to split into two new parties in the UK!"

You could take a leaf from White Wolf and TSR, and have vampires gain power with age. So a newly-turned vampire (meaning anybody who got raised as a vampire in your lifetime, probably) might have only modest powers and lots of weaknesses. As they get older their weakness are reduced and their powers increase, but they get fewer as well as rival vampires and mortals pick them off. So the world might be secretly ruled by a handful of super-super-vampires, but the vampire who was raised in 1950 is a different story, you have a chance against him.

Or try this, maybe most attempts to raise a new vampire either fail for whatever reason, or produce a substandard vampire. That is, when the new undead does rise, maybe 90% of all cases results in a mindless or insane entity, with no self-control and little ability to plan or analyze. It might be standard procedure for other vampires to destroy those to keep the secret in place. Or maybe they use 'em as shock troops.

There are lots of interesting possibilities.