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Old 03-16-2018, 08:27 AM   #21
Polydamas
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
Default Re: Traits For A New Baron

You will need at least Filthy Rich (100 times Average income) for a baron. Very Wealthy is about right for someone who can afford a stable of horses and some nice armour and a big house and spend their time training for war and hunting. Barons are the kinds of people who had incomes in the hundreds of pounds when most families survived on 2-5 pounds a year.

Don't forget Independent Income to represent the incomes which he has people to collect. If he goes off to war and is not working his Baron job, his revenue will not collapse.
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Old 03-16-2018, 09:55 AM   #22
Michele
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Udine, Italy
Default Re: Traits For A New Baron

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
If you think there should be an "overlap" discount, that's likely because one or another of those components isn't actually worth its base price in your game.
Well, maybe that's part of the reason, though I didn't realize it. Personally my reasoning was more along the lines that certain levels of Wealth and Rank do give you some Status boost for free. I just guessed I would cut the price of Status more heavily thanks to Feudal Rank, if I used it, than for Military rank in, say, a present-day campaign.
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Old 03-16-2018, 12:04 PM   #23
Polydamas
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Default Re: Traits For A New Baron

Also, GURPS Banestorm (book) and GURPS Saduria (free online project) have advice for how to stat nobility in pseudo-medieval fantasy settings. Banestorm definitely has a 'what cost of living gets you' for the nobility.
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Old 03-16-2018, 01:47 PM   #24
Culture20
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Default Re: Traits For A New Baron

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
You will need at least Filthy Rich (100 times Average income) for a baron.
For an existing baron, capabale of levying necessary taxes and collecting debts. The character in question, having inherited the title and lands without knowledge of how government works, might have a slight Wealth increase due to automatic things like the tower treasury, standard head taxes, etc, but not be aware that half of the treasury is on loan to various knights or even commoners, or that the masons working on the south tower expect to be payed at the end of the month when they complete their work.
The original poster could allow the PC to keep all the old disads, and give the advantages of the barony along with extra disadvantages or lack of some of the advantages (Debt, Bad Reputation, lesser Wealth, etc) Then when the player realizes they’re running out of funds and other nobles won’t help, it’s time to go treasure hunting!
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Old 03-16-2018, 09:28 PM   #25
tanksoldier
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Default Re: Traits For A New Baron

No castellan or senchal left over from the previous administration?
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Old 03-17-2018, 05:16 AM   #26
Agemegos
 
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Default Re: Traits For A New Baron

Quote:
Originally Posted by Culture20 View Post
For an existing baron, capabale of levying necessary taxes….!
I wouldn't go so far as to say that no baron ever levied taxes. But far the usual case was that barons drew their revenues from the produce of their demesnes* (which were usually worked in part by unfree tenants as rent in the form of labour), rents (in cash and produce) paid by tenants on their land, fees for the use of their mills, ovens, winepresses etc., fines imposed by their manor courts (the "right of low justice" was a revenue right), sometimes the tithes of churches they or their ancestors had endowed, sometimes stud fees from their monopoly of studs bulls, rams etc., and sometimes tolls from use of their bridges and roads.
____________

* Demesnes are lands that the owner has not assigned to a tenant. In each manor the demesne is the part that is not assigned to a peasant, i.e. of which the crop etc. belongs to the landlord. In each kingdom the manors that have not been assigned to a lord (baron, bishop, abbey, nunnery etc.) but are held by the king directly make up the royal demesne. It is the revenues of the royal demesne from which the king runs (or is supposed to run) the government.
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Old 03-17-2018, 10:44 AM   #27
TheRealMe
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Default Re: Traits For A New Baron

Thank you all. The response here has been far greater than I anticipated or hoped for. You have all been a great help. Here are my next set of comments, for any who might care to continue the conversation:

I had never heard of Feudal Rank, though I do have the Social Engineering supplement that I have never gotten into. I will have to take a look. Does Feudal Rank subsume Military and Administrative Rank, or would those be separate or different? I have often been confused in GURPS about how Status, Military Rank, and Administrative Rank (and now Feudal Rank) all interact. Is it fair to charge a PC for all of these various Ranks separately? In this particular case, while the Baron nominally has an overlord, within his barony he is effectively an absolute monarch.

Is it fair to mitigate the cost of these new social advantages with additional disadvantages that cause the PC to go above the campaign limit? Is the disad limit not there for a reason of balance? Then again, that is how it is done for some racial templates, I believe.

Humabout, thank you for the very detailed Baron template.

Tanksoldier, than you for mentioning Traveller Nobles. I have that supplement, but it never occurred to me to look at it. Silly me!

Hal, it so happens that I have been a big fan of GURPS and Harn since both first appeared in the 1980s, and have acquired most GURPS and all Harn supplements over the decades (yes, I am very old!). I thank you for your kind offer to help detail this "barony," but to be honest, it will not be the setting of the campaign for much longer. I may ask for your help for other locations. Note that the new Baron will be part of the continuing campaign, as he must go back to the distant capital to swear loyalty, obtain a wife from a good family, and be properly trained as a mage.

While nominally part of a greater state, this barony is actually on an island far from the capital and is treated by those in power as an unimportant and ignored backwater. So within his realm, the Baron is effectively an absolute monarch. But if the Baron goes to the capital (as I have planned), he will be regarded among High Society as an unimportant petty lordling. How can this be represented in GURPS? With frequencies on all his traits?

When I originally posted this thread, I called this a medieval barony set in a fantasy world, because that was an analogue that was close enough. In fact, the rulers of my empire are all mages or circles of mages working together. Those without magery are not qualified to be a ruler. Rather than a medieval barony, this situation might more closely resemble a province or client state of the Roman Empire, or perhaps of an Imperial successor state after Rome's fall. In any case, there are families of mages who rule over territories, and that is what we have in this example. While in this culture there exist "knights" (and mages) who perform military service for a title to land, there are also soldiers who resemble a Roman legion whose duty is to protect the mages and the realm.

This Barony is nominally an isolated island some 30 by 15 miles across, though most of that is a great wild forest occupied by beastmen of all varieties. The portion solidly under the Baron's control is the west-most part of the island surrounding a great bay, perhaps 60-75 square miles of cultivated land. There is a modest walled port town that sees little sea traffic these days, a strong keep that is a relic of ancient and more prosperous times, and 30-40 farming villages. There may be additional ancient fortifications, but none are currently serviceable.

The PC mentioned is currently the ruler with a newborn niece as an heir. His predecessors and other rivals for the position have all died in the last few years in a flurry of assassinations, a battle, an execution, and an instance of kidnapping-gone-bad. While there exists a hyper-competent administrator from earlier times (the PC's mother), she is elderly, and will need to train a replacement soon. There are a few other competent officials. The treasury has been looted. There exist only eight or ten warriors that remain loyal and (at least marginally) competent. The activities of previous lords have tended to discourage a war-like culture in this barony; they wished to hold all military power and rule over a population of sheep. This was because the original rulers of this house were adventuring conquerors that took over the power structure some 40 years ago, and spent a couple decades mercilessly putting down rebellions. As a result, after these purges followed by decades of peace, the current population is not accustomed to war. Unfortunately, there has been a terrible, bloody war in the last two months against tribes of beastmen on the island. This war has ended in a shaky truce. The new Baron cannot really expect much help from his nominal overlords back in the capital, and there are no neighboring island realms with which he is particularly friendly.

The other PCs are part of a mission sent by the capital to discover why telepathic communication with the rulers in this place were abruptly cut off. They will be returning home, soon. The current Baron was once one of their retainers.

- Ed

Last edited by TheRealMe; 03-17-2018 at 11:45 AM.
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