Quantum Levels and the Planar Shift spell

[DaltonS]

According to p.M83, for the Plane Shift spell "Some planes may cost more [than 20 points], carry a skill penalty, or both." How does this map to worlds with different quantum levels in the Infinite Worlds setting?

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              | Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> |
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[maximara]

Originally Posted by DaltonS

According to p.M83, for the Plane Shift spell "Some planes may cost more [than 20 points], carry a skill penalty, or both." How does this map to worlds with different quantum levels in the Infinite Worlds setting

There is nothing that say it has to and there in is the problem; as stated in Time Travel parachronic theory is not complete because there are these things while they are very rare that happen that just do not follow the thoery. There is nothing that says World Jumping and Plane Shift have to follow the same rules as technological based parachronic travel.

I always viewed parachronic theory in GURPS as only a small subset of how the multiverse worked and there were other methods (Paradox-1's Trinary Chronal Theory) that had different limitations.

[Diogenes]

Originally Posted by maximara

There is nothing that say it has to and there in is the problem; as stated in Time Travel parachronic theory is not complete because there are these things while they are very rare that happen that just do not follow the thoery. There is nothing that says World Jumping and Plane Shift have to follow the same rules as technological based parachronic travel.

I always viewed parachronic theory in GURPS as only a small subset of how the multiverse worked and there were other methods (Paradox-1's Trinary Chronal Theory) that had different limitations.

Why shouldn't they? For game purposes, parachronic theory is well-working enough to be a base for all parachronic methods. Infinity employs this just technologically.

[DaltonS]

Well, hopefully the issue will be cleared up when the IW book comes out sometime this month. Since quantum effects aren't mentioned in the "Power Systems" paragraph on p.B529, it might be a skill penalty rather than an energy cost; however projector power usage isn't mentioned at all, so anything is possible.

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              | Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> |
              |      Family Motto: Virtute Acquiritur Honos      |
              |Clarkes Law, Merlin style: Any magic, sufficiently|
              | analyzed, is indistinguishable from technology.  |
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              |              mutant scraper. FNORD!              |
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[maximara]

Originally Posted by Diogenes

Why shouldn't they? For game purposes, parachronic theory is well-working enough to be a base for all parachronic methods. Infinity employs this just technologically.

Aristotle created a cosmology that held sway for nearly 2,000 years despite having logic holes large enough to fly a blimp through. Newton's cosmology had fewer holes and is still taught today despite that past a certain point it breaks down. Parachronic theory a presented in Time Travel and 4e basic Set like Newton works well but it is clear that it has some problems. The fact that Riech-5 developed world jumping baced without Infinity knowing about it shows just how myoptic their view of parachronic travel is (something I have pointed out before on Usenet)

[Diogenes]

Originally Posted by maximara

Aristotle created a cosmology that held sway for nearly 2,000 years despite having logic holes large enough to fly a blimp through. Newton's cosmology had fewer holes and is still taught today despite that past a certain point it breaks down. Parachronic theory a presented in Time Travel and 4e basic Set like Newton works well but it is clear that it has some problems. The fact that Riech-5 developed world jumping baced without Infinity knowing about it shows just how myoptic their view of parachronic travel is (something I have pointed out before on Usenet)

Well, then we have to look for another theory ... If we want to. But DaltonS is right: We should wait for Infinite World.

[TheDS]

Newton's cosmology is retained because it is effective as a simplification for everyday things.

When you have the equation A + B + C = X, and most of the time deriving C is a long, arduous process, and usually is close enough to 0 that it doesn't matter, why would you bother computing it when it doesn't matter? The important thing is that we KNOW C is there, and that when we need it, we can pull it out of its dark closet.

If I am in a car traveling at some speed, and I throw a ball in the same direction I'm traveling, how fast does the ball go? While you can figure out A (speed of car) + B (speed of ball) + C (relativistic effect), who's going to bother working out C unless A + B winds up being a significant fraction of light?

Approximation: Better a simple, understandable, slight falsehood than a long, overcomplicated, absolute truth.

[Southern Cross]

Perhaps,but that doesn't answer the main question-how the energy (& skill penalty,if any) required for the Plane Shift spell relates to the "quantum level" cosmology that Homeline uses for its panachronic travel.(If it does at all).

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Southern Cross

Perhaps,but that doesn't answer the main question-how the energy (& skill penalty, if any) required for the Plane Shift spell relates to the "quantum level" cosmology that Homeline uses for its panachronic travel.(If it does at all).

Which goes back to the point I was originally making; Plane Shift may work on a different set of rules that what Infinity knows about. What if in one reality Timeport really takes you to an 'echo' of your world rather than moving you through time. Then if like Homeline all these 'echos' are in one Quanta energy and skill penality have nothing to do with quanta levels.

[DaltonS]

Originally Posted by maximara

Which goes back to the point I was originally making; Plane Shift may work on a different set of rules that what Infinity knows about. What if in one reality Timeport really takes you to an 'echo' of your world rather than moving you through time. Then if like Homeline all these 'echos' are in one Quanta energy and skill penality have nothing to do with quanta levels.

Ken Hite posted the following in response to this question on the sjgames.gurps.4e Pyramid group.

IW doesn't assign any standard or canon penalties to cross-quantum Plane Shifting. It can be read as assuming (though it doesn't state flat-out) that all Plane Shifts take you (instantaneously) through the Astral Plane, from which all worlds are "one window away."

It does, however, assign variable FP costs for World-Jumper across planes that a GM can adapt into minuses for Plane Shift spells, should she wish to.

IOW, no or yes, depending on what the GM wants. (Although the implication that Cabal cosmology has some objective validity in the Infinity multiverse is a bit disturbing.)

              @==================================================@
              | Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> |
              |      Family Motto: Virtute Acquiritur Honos      |
              |Clarkes Law, Merlin style: Any magic, sufficiently|
              | analyzed, is indistinguishable from technology.  |
              |  Ringo must take the orbital ash tray from the   |
              |            Last National Bank. FNORD!            |
              @==================================================@