[G4e] Repeated Attempts for First-Aid Skill Rolls?

[Stripe]

I don't have my books with me, but my friend and I are playing a quick "gladiator"-type game.

Canonically speaking and rules-as-written, if you fail first aid skill rolls, do you get repeated attempts? Or, does the GM decide as per the repeated attempts rules?

I think I remember we always allowed them once per minute at a cumulative -1 per attempt, but I forget. I have NO books at the moment! XD

[Mailanka]

First of all, First Aid takes between 30 and 10 minutes, depending on your TL (unless you mean bandaging, which is mostly just about stopping bleeding, if you're using that optional rule). Second, the First Aid rules don't say explicitly. I think the cumulative -1 is reasonable, however, given the descriptions under Repeated Attempts.

[Stripe]

Forgot I wrote this. Oops! Thanks for the reply. The world is TL3.

Originally Posted by B424

Bandaging
It takes one minute to apply pressure or a tourniquet to stop bleeding. This restores 1 HP.

So, there are two first aid rolls, if I'm reading correctly. The first is for bandaging and it's once per minute. That's what I was remembering. A successful roll restores 1 HP and stops the bleeding (Bleeding rules are on B420).

This was the cumulative -1 per minute for failed rolls.

After that, it's a 30-minute roll for 1d-3 HP restored, but any HP restored there counts the 1 for bandaging. Then, for failed rolls, repeated attempts could be made at a cumulative -1 per 30 minutes if the GM allows. The repeated attempts rules are on B348.

Sound good? :)

[Stripe]

Reading and refreshing my memory further, I also see this:

Originally Posted by B424-425

MEDICAL CARE
The healer may also make a Physician roll to cure the patient.
...
The exact number of patients a physician can attend to and the frequency with which he may roll to cure them depend on the TL of his Physician skill; see the Medical Help Table, below. On a success, the patient recovers 1 HP; on a critical success, he recovers 2 HP. This is in addition to natural healing. However, a critical failure costs the patient 1 HP!

The table shows TL1-4 can make rolls, but I thought the physician skill didn't exist until TL5?

Originally Posted by B213

At TL4 and below, this skill does not exist in most game worlds. Instead, use Esoteric Medicine (p. 192), Pharmacy (Herbal) (above), or both.

Does this mean the healer is allowed to make Esoteric Medicine or Pharmacy instead? I'm surprised the rules on B425-425 didn't state that (as far as I can see) if so...

[weby]

That long time is Treating Shock. Bandaging is 1 minute.

Shock tratment should realistically start very soon after the target goes to shock(minutes) to be effective, thus repeating a failed would likely have no effect or be at very high penalty.

Bandaging the wounds can likely be done much later.. as wounds take longer to close.

[PK]

Bandaging doesn't require a roll, unless you're trying to use the Time Spent rules to do it quickly. It's automatic, and it's assume that that's the first minute of first aid. Then, 30 minutes later (at TL3), you roll 1d-3 for the total HP restored (to both bandaging and advanced First Aid).

As for the original question, I'd say a cumulative -1 for failed rolls is sensible, yes. Eventually, you're going to either get it fixed up or make it worse.

[Edges]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Bandaging doesn't require a roll...

Oh. I didn't know that. I always assumed it did. So does that mean anyone with a 7+ IQ can do it? I assume you mean that the rolls aren't required unless you're using optional bleeding rules (since bandaging is pretty trivial with the default rules).

On MA138 where it says, "Optionally, apply the total penalty to bleeding rolls...to First Aid rolls made to halt bleeding", I interpreted that to mean that the additional penalties are optional but not the "halt bleeding" rolls themselves. But I have been accused of misinterpreting the RAW before.

[Stripe]

I'm kind of confused now too, but I don't have time to type about it.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by Edges

Oh. I didn't know that. I always assumed it did. So does that mean anyone with a 7+ IQ can do it? I assume you mean that the rolls aren't required unless you're using optional bleeding rules (since bandaging is pretty trivial with the default rules).

On MA138 where it says, "Optionally, apply the total penalty to bleeding rolls...to First Aid rolls made to halt bleeding", I interpreted that to mean that the additional penalties are optional but not the "halt bleeding" rolls themselves. But I have been accused of misinterpreting the RAW before.

That was how I assumed it worked too. Among other things, it makes a First Aid Kit and bandages useful in low TL games where the extra healing for taking 30 minutes is very low (1d-4 or 1d-3) so few PCs will take that long. I've been experimenting whether or not to apply the bleeding penalty to First Aid rolls in the game I run.

Also see the rules in various books which require a Surgery roll to stop some bleeding.

I wonder what would be a fair penalty to bandage your own wounds?

[Jamaraq]

In our games, we always ruled that First Aid is exactly that, first aid. If you failed the First Aid check, any attempts after the ~30 minutes failed attempt (we play Low Tech games) wouldn't be first aid anymore.