[Basic] Skill of the week: Knot-Tying

[Not]

Hate to quibble, but what spiders do seems more professional skill Weaver than Knot-tying.

Anybody ever try a default from Literacy (Inca) for reading/tying a quipu?

[Adversary]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

We're getting into heavy houserule territory, and into questions of how to add fine detail to things that are abstract even when Knot-Tying is a separate skill. It's generally logical that someone with IQ1 and DX15 and Knot-Tying at DX+15 should not be able to invent some rope-based constructions. Using a prerequisite IQ-based skill level (like with New Inventions) seemed like a workable solution.

Yeah, I agree with that, and with what Kromm wrote. I'd break things down this way:

core knot-tying tasks--use knot-tying (Dex) or a default, e.g. climbing -4 (Dex)
core climbing tasks--use climbing (Dex), even if those tasks involve a rope and basic knots (e.g. securing yourself with a rope as described on pg. 349).
very knot-intensive climbing tasks, like improvising a rope ladder for a climbing-incompetent party member--use knot-tying (Dex) or a default
writing a book about climbing or knot-tying, shouting instructions to someone else to tie a knot or make a crux climbing move, etc. --knot-tying or climbing (Int), as well as Writing, Leadership, etc. as appropriate.
designing a rope apparatus, like a substantial rope bridge--use some sort of engineering or inventor skill, aided by knot-tying (IQ) for the design, knot-tying (Dex) for the construction.

What constitutes a core knot-tying task, a core climbing task, an engineering project, etc. is going to be a gm call, with substantial grey areas, just as there might be grey areas between mechanic and engineering, tracking and survival, stealth and camouflage, shadowing and observation, etc.

But the fact remains that knot-tying is a Dex-based skill that allows you to "make a noose, tie someone up, etc." That implies that even though the skill is Dex-based, the knot-tier knows the best knots to use for that noose, those rope bonds, etc. without making any IQ-based rolls. And so someone defaulting knot-tying from climbing--our giant sentient squirrel--can also perform core knot-tying tasks with pure Dex, no IQ-based roll required. It doesn't matter that the giant squirrels of Planet Nutzoo have never seen a rope and are kinda dumb; they have Climbing, and under the rules Climbing allows knot-tying tasks to be performed using Dex (at -4).

In fact, the squirrels can perform simple rope-related climbing tasks at full Climbing (Dex), limited only by familiarity penalties. Any further rope-related deficit on the part of the Planet Nutzooians must be explained by some factor outside the skills themselves.

[johndallman]

The skill just got used! For reasons not convenient to describe, the party needs to store a stevedore in a hot steamy boiler room for a couple of hours. The knot-tying roll was to make sure that the ropes could be untied after a couple of hours in that atmosphere.

[Celti]

Originally Posted by johndallman

The skill just got used! For reasons not convenient to describe, the party needs to store a stevedore in a hot steamy boiler room for a couple of hours. The knot-tying roll was to make sure that the ropes could be untied after a couple of hours in that atmosphere.

I'd be more worried about the stevedore still being functional after a couple of hours restrained in a boiler room! Ropes can be cut, after all.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Kromm

That's why you'd use Engineer to plan the job and then assign the labor to your trained IQ 1 spiders to do with their spinnerets and Knot-Tying skills. This is a textbook example of Long Tasks (p. B346). Field Engineering (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 16: Wilderness Adventures, p. 33) works much the same way.

What Engineer speciality should naval officers at TL4-5 have for being able to plan tasks where heavy weights are hoisted on or off ships?

It must be able to cover lifting freight aboard as well as getting cannon to the top of a cliff inland, as these are functionally the same tasks and both well-attested in the kind of fiction which has Age of Sail naval officers.

I've always been hesitant to call it Engineer (Sailing Ship), as that seems narrower than the rigging tasks that naval officers often undertake and it also seems to include knowledge that not every naval officer would have,* but maybe that's the best fit.

*But the shipwrights and carpenter would.

[Celti]

Originally Posted by Icelander

What Engineer speciality should naval officers at TL4-5 have for being able to plan tasks where heavy weights are hoisted on or off ships?

It must be able to cover lifting freight aboard as well as getting cannon to the top of a cliff inland, as these are functionally the same tasks and both well-attested in the kind of fiction which has Age of Sail naval officers.

I've always been hesitant to call it Engineer (Sailing Ship), as that seems narrower than the rigging tasks that naval officers often undertake and it also seems to include knowledge that not every naval officer would have,* but maybe that's the best fit.

*But the shipwrights and carpenter would.

I honestly might just call it Engineer (Rigging), with generous defaults from Engineer (Civil, Combat, or Sailing Ship).

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Icelander

What Engineer speciality should naval officers at TL4-5 have for being able to plan tasks where heavy weights are hoisted on or off ships?

Why must it be an Engineer specialty? Freight Handling seems to cover it.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Why must it be an Engineer specialty? Freight Handling seems to cover it.

Does Freight Handling cover a situation where a PC and his loyal crew of sailors have to get a cannon weighing some two tons from the beach to the top of a cliff?

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Icelander

What Engineer speciality should naval officers at TL4-5 have for being able to plan tasks where heavy weights are hoisted on or off ships?

I think this may simply be Seamanship/TL and Leadership. The routine tasks that work the same way are

• Loading stores and equipment, where anything too heavy for a man to carry up a gangplank will be hoisted via pulleys in the rigging, swung inboard, and lowered into place.
• Setting up topmasts and topgallant masts. These are removable, unlike the lower masts, which are fixed, and are hoisted via pulleys at the top of the standing mast, swung upright, and stepped in place.

If you can do these things readily, which include getting the guns and carriages on and off the ship, getting guns to the top of a cliff may have a bit of a familiarity penalty, but that's about all. Heavier weights just need longer ropes and more pulleys, for more mechanical advantage.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Does Freight Handling cover a situation where a PC and his loyal crew of sailors have to get a cannon weighing some two tons from the beach to the top of a cliff?

That's a really good question.

I would favor Freight Handling before I would favor knot tying, certainly. Freight handling talked about loading and unloading vehicles, not hauling cannon to the tops of mountains, but then again, the initial proposal of "Engineer (Rigging)" didn't either.

If this was going to be an important skill in a campaign (and I can see it being so), I'd probably make it a specialization of Teamster. Engineer (Rigging) might be a valid specialty as well. Actually, Engineer (Combat) probably should cover it in some settings.

If It just came up, I'd try to get the PC's to scrape together a cocktail of relevant skills, base all on IQ, and use the lowest. For example: Freight handling, climbing, and leadership.