Gettysburg scenario

[GEVJockey]

Sorry for coming to the party late on this one. (Don't any of you work for a living?)

I really like the idea of reinforcement cards.

[random thought 1]
Certainly there's a need for balance in the reinforcements that can be brought to bear in a game. Allowing a Mk V in a scenario where sides start out with 120 Victory points and having the standard reinforcement be a unit or two is going to result in 'Game over, man' pretty quickly. But if you're playing a larger scenario, adding Victory points would tilt the battle, but not mean instant victory. And if the reinforcement card sets yield statistically equivalent reinforcements over a period of turns, then this could add quite a new tactical dimension to a game.
[/rt1]

[random thought 2]
The reinforcement card concept could be programmed into an Ogre app easily.

Scenario Attributes
Can cards be returned to the pile? Always, Never, Card Dependent

Card Attributes
Reinforcement units for card
Card returned to pile? Yes, No, After X turns

As you define a card set for a scenario, you can determine the number of times a card appears in the pile to start (so you don't have to define 3GEVs 5 times for five separate cards).

The card set builder could provide some basic statistical information on the reinforcement card set (total VPs in set, mean VP per card, Std Dev to see how bad the outliers are).

Standard reinforcement tables can be modeled in the app without any difficulty.
[/rt2]

Um, is that a client calling?

[Buzzardo]

I still like my idea of a matrix full of options, wherein each column adds up to the same VP total. But I'm liking the idea of cards better, so I'll let my matrix idea go.

I'm intrigued by the various ideas for variably delaying reinforcements. How would delaying the reinforcements by some number of turns based on the VP value of the reinforcements impact the game? In other words, suppose you receive 30 VP worth of reinforcements, and the rule is to divide VP by 10 for the delay. So you get 30 VP worth of help in 3 turns. Workable or too much of a pain?

[Buzzardo]

Originally Posted by GEVJockey

[random thought 2]
The reinforcement card concept could be programmed into an Ogre app easily.

Very easily, at that. It'd be an almost trivial stand-alone app/web page (optimized for various sizes of device, of course), too. I look forward to it. :)

[Stabliser]

Originally Posted by Buzzardo

I still like my idea of a matrix full of options, wherein each column adds up to the same VP total. But I'm liking the idea of cards better, so I'll let my matrix idea go.

I'm intrigued by the various ideas for variably delaying reinforcements. How would delaying the reinforcements by some number of turns based on the VP value of the reinforcements impact the game? In other words, suppose you receive 30 VP worth of reinforcements, and the rule is to divide VP by 10 for the delay. So you get 30 VP worth of help in 3 turns. Workable or too much of a pain?

I don't want you to stop working on your matrix idea, I'm sure its full of ideas I could steal ;)

OK, I'll admit it, I play magic. Hence the familiarity with magic set editor. And one of the ways that delays are factored into magic, is to put a die on the card that is delayed, with say the 'six' pips upwards, next turn it gets turned to 'five' and so on. The card comes into play after the 'one' is to be turned. If delays are to be used, as a way of balancing things in ogre that could be an option.

Preparing for the Ogre Mk V in 4 turns time might offset the imbalance a little, as the opponent retreats back to regroup with his incomming reinforcements. The more powerful the reinforcement the longer its arrival is delayed - hmm, more options.

[offsides]

I just took the first step towards a generic reinforcement deck, putting together a spreadsheet listing a large number of possible reinforcement groups for 6, 12, 18, 24, 36 and 48 VP. The list can be found here - I'd be interested in hearing what people think of the concept in general, as well as specific combinations (both those I listed, and any that I didn't that you think would make good additions). The spreadsheet is here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...XhGcmdfRGRqN0E

Yes, the 24 and 48 columns do cheat a hair by including Mark I & II Ogres, but at least officially they're only 1 and 2 VP over, so I figure they could be there. Right now I'm really just looking at answering the first of what would be many questions, namely: "What levels (in VP) of reinforcements should be available, and what should they consist of?" Once I have that reasonably nailed down, then I'll move on to the next question, which will likely be one of the following:

1. "How should the reinforcements be shown on the card?"
2. "How many of each card should be in the deck?"
3. "What should the objective cards list on them?"
4. "What should the location cards list on them?"
5. "Is there a better way to do this?"
6. "Should I give up and have my head examined?" :P

Just for reference, I think the 36 and 48VP cards may be overkill for reinforcements, but make decent starting force cards for random scenarios/large groups (everyone gets one 36 or 48 VP card for initial forces and has to make it work).

[Stabliser]

Originally Posted by offsides

I just took the first step towards a generic reinforcement deck, putting together a spreadsheet listing a large number of possible reinforcement groups for 6, 12, 18, 24, 36 and 48 VP. The list can be found here - I'd be interested in hearing what people think of the concept in general, as well as specific combinations (both those I listed, and any that I didn't that you think would make good additions). The spreadsheet is here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...XhGcmdfRGRqN0E

Yes, the 24 and 48 columns do cheat a hair by including Mark I & II Ogres, but at least officially they're only 1 and 2 VP over, so I figure they could be there. Right now I'm really just looking at answering the first of what would be many questions, namely: "What levels (in VP) of reinforcements should be available, and what should they consist of?" Once I have that reasonably nailed down, then I'll move on to the next question, which will likely be one of the following:

1. "How should the reinforcements be shown on the card?"
2. "How many of each card should be in the deck?"
3. "What should the objective cards list on them?"
4. "What should the location cards list on them?"
5. "Is there a better way to do this?"
6. "Should I give up and have my head examined?" :P

Just for reference, I think the 36 and 48VP cards may be overkill for reinforcements, but make decent starting force cards for random scenarios/large groups (everyone gets one 36 or 48 VP card for initial forces and has to make it work).

Well that puts a lot of meat on the bones of the idea. Good job, lots to evaluate there.

[offsides]

Originally Posted by Stabliser

Well that puts a lot of meat on the bones of the idea. Good job, lots to evaluate there.

I try :)

I also think that your idea of using the die to delay the arrival of reinforcements is a good one. Perhaps do something like this:

Have a random delay built into every card over some VP level (I'm thinking 6-12VP cards arrive immediately, higher VP cards delay 0-2 turns perhaps, with Ogres delaying at least 4-6 turns, maybe more). Not sure how to best implement it, but it allows you to get some big reinforcements right away, or you have to wait for them to arrive. The other issue is that if you are drawing for reinforcements every turn, and get several cards landing all in one turn, it can become VERY one-sided...

*sigh* Yet another factor to contemplate. Perhaps there should be a 12VP/turn max inbound, and largert cards force you to wait extra turns before drawing your next card? It's starting to get more complicated than I originally wanted, I definitely need to take a couple steps back and let it percolate some more...

[Stabliser]

I posted 5 of the 6VP cards (I dont have the Lt GEV chit loaded into zuntzu yet - to be sorted later)
They seem a tad naked, in need of some personality. What rank pilots a GEV? can we fit a rank and a name before the unit name? If we put personality into the cards can the same pilot arrive on the battlefield twice?

[offsides]

Originally Posted by Stabliser

I posted 5 of the 6VP cards (I dont have the Lt GEV chit loaded into zuntzu yet - to be sorted later)
They seem a tad naked, in need of some personality. What rank pilots a GEV? can we fit a rank and a name before the unit name? If we put personality into the cards can the same pilot arrive on the battlefield twice?

Given that GEVs are "piloted" a la aircraft, they'd probably be at least a Lt. of some sort. As to the names, as long as it's just last names, there can be more than one out there...

[Toltrin]

Originally Posted by offsides

The dice are interesting, but I just don't instinctively understand the symbols you use, and having to pick from the various categories is a little more complex than I'd like for reinforcements. Although it may be less complicated than I think, and I'm just not understanding it because of the symbols... :)

Here is the list of the symbols I use on my counter sheet for this game.