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Old 01-30-2005, 06:58 PM   #21
Ze'Manel Cunha
 
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Default Re: G4e Tech Levels for Merlin, Homeline

Quote:
Originally Posted by prosfilaes
Why doesn't the real world have a TL that's uniform across the board, or nearly so? It is as logical to say that c1000 WE was MTL3 as MTL1, as they are both completely arbitrary. One, however, requires big lists of technologies and TLs, and the other requires going "Okay, this is like c1000 WE, so everything is TL3."
Think of the Middle Ages in Europe, some things were more developed from the Roman Empire, usually better metallurgy, better horsemanship, but in most other ways the TL was lower than the Roman Empire.
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Old 01-30-2005, 07:00 PM   #22
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Default Re: G4e Tech Levels for Merlin, Homeline

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Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha
Think of the Middle Ages in Europe, some things were more developed from the Roman Empire, usually better metallurgy, better horsemanship, but in most other ways the TL was lower than the Roman Empire.
Like what? What were the Romans doing that the Middle Ages couldn't?
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Old 01-30-2005, 07:01 PM   #23
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Default Re: G4e Tech Levels for Merlin, Homeline

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Originally Posted by prosfilaes
Like what? What were the Romans doing that the Middle Ages couldn't?
serurgy , seriously
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Old 01-30-2005, 07:04 PM   #24
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Default Re: G4e Tech Levels for Merlin, Homeline

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Originally Posted by prosfilaes
Like what? What were the Romans doing that the Middle Ages couldn't?
Communications, road-building, cloth-making, machinery/gearing, medicine, all general fields of science, engineering/architecture ie. aquaducts/baths/heated floors, indoor plumbing, etc. I could go on.
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Old 01-30-2005, 07:08 PM   #25
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Default Re: G4e Tech Levels for Merlin, Homeline

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Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha
Communications, road-building, cloth-making, machinery/gearing, medicine, all general fields of science, engineering/architecture ie. aquaducts/baths/heated floors, indoor plumbing, etc. I could go on.
To quote Daniel Jackson, from a 1st season episode of Stargate SG-1:
"They didn't call them the Dark Ages because they were, you know, dark."

Last edited by CraigR; 01-30-2005 at 07:09 PM. Reason: Need to preview before clicking submit...
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Old 01-30-2005, 07:26 PM   #26
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Default Re: G4e Tech Levels for Merlin, Homeline

It still doesn't negate the basic argument. Whereever possible, TLs need to be level in the real world, to simplify the jobs of the players and GMs. There's no reason for TL6 and TL7 not to be a clean line.
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Old 01-31-2005, 04:26 AM   #27
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Default Re: G4e Tech Levels for Merlin, Homeline

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Originally Posted by prosfilaes
TL (x+1) was never designed for real world use; it was designed, IIRC, for the Steampunk book, and was explicitly for alternate universes. It's needless complexity for the real world, and it's the wrong tool, to boot; TL (x+1) is by definition off the RL trail of technologies. If you don't want the nuke to be TL6 and don't want it to be TL7, you need to make a TL 6.5 and place it there.
I *think* TL (x+1) can also be used for a tiny handful of real-world inventions that are what would have been the first steps of an alternate technological path had history not gone in the direction it had. For instance, in Steampunk, IIRC one of the ships that really was in the British fleet was given a (3E) TL 5+1, because it was the next generation in steam technology made at a time when every other transportation technology was moving to internal combustion.

Either way, maximara's usage of TL 6+1 for a TL 7 technology based off of TL 6 knowledge isn't a correct usage. Regardless of what knowledge TL the bomb was made from, it nonetheless significantly shaped the direction of real world technology forever after, and belongs on the regular progression.
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Old 01-31-2005, 07:18 AM   #28
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Default Re: G4e Tech Levels for Merlin, Homeline

Quote:
Originally Posted by prosfilaes
Why doesn't the real world have a TL that's uniform across the board, or nearly so? It is as logical to say that c1000 WE was MTL3 as MTL1, as they are both completely arbitrary. One, however, requires big lists of technologies and TLs, and the other requires going "Okay, this is like c1000 WE, so everything is TL3."
Big list? Hardly. The examples given in fantasy are one sentance blurb. I have written more detailed descriptions for minor NPCs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prosfilaes
TL (x+1) was never designed for real world use; it was designed, IIRC, for the Steampunk book, and was explicitly for alternate universes.
No it was not. Steampunk clearly states that TL(x+y) is for divergent technology and gives the real life ship the HMS Dreadnaught as an example of TL(5+1). GURPS 4e continutes this tradition.
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Old 01-31-2005, 07:42 AM   #29
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Default Re: G4e Tech Levels for Merlin, Homeline

Quote:
Originally Posted by jSarek
I *think* TL(x+1) can also be used for a tiny handful of real-world inventions that are what would have been the first steps of an alternate technological path had history not gone in the direction it had. For instance, in Steampunk, IIRC one of the ships that really was in the British fleet was given a (3E) TL 5+1, because it was the next generation in steam technology made at a time when every other transportation technology was moving to internal combustion.
The HMS Dreadnaught. As for "every other transportation technology was moving to internal combustion" THat was not true for ships. The Titanic was using steampower fules by coal and ment shoving it into a boiler and that is the tail end of the 'Steampunk' era (1914).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jSarek
Either way, maximara's usage of TL 6+1 for a TL 7 technology based off of TL 6 knowledge isn't a correct usage. Regardless of what knowledge TL the bomb was made from, it nonetheless significantly shaped the direction of real world technology forever after, and belongs on the regular progression.
If you have watched Burke's Connections you would know that this is a poor arguement. The other seven inventions (Telecommunications, computer, assembly line, jet engine, plastics, rockets, and TV) he talks about have had as profound an effect (if not more profound) than the atom bomb did. But other then the jet engine none of these really defines TL in GURPS.

The basic Set points out that technology tends to gray from one TL to another and TL(x+Y) is one way to deal with it especialy if some key parts of the TL at the 'normal' level are missing. For example would be a good way to represent TV of the 1930's (1936 - Olympic Games and World's Fair of 1939) or Nylon (originally called Duparooh for Dupont pulls a rabbit out of a hat)

Also remember that since atomic power behaves differently on Merlin than in OTL TL(6+1) makes perfect sence for that setting regardless of your arguements for OTL.

Last edited by maximara; 01-31-2005 at 07:50 AM.
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Old 01-31-2005, 08:02 AM   #30
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Default Re: G4e Tech Levels for Merlin, Homeline

Maximara: It's called suspension of disbelief. Get over it.
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