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Old 04-24-2019, 04:24 PM   #11
evileeyore
 
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Default Re: [MA] [LT] Dueling Buckler and Shield-Hand Knife

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Originally Posted by seycyrus View Post
In the first video, he's not suffering a penalty to either his block or his knife skill, rather he is allowing himself another option with his off hand at the expense of the other when the other option is exercised.
That you know of. In both videos he's sacrificing some amount of control by griping two objects at once, he doesn't have full contact with the grips of either. This to me sounds very much like a -2 to both skills.
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Old 04-24-2019, 07:22 PM   #12
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Default Re: [MA][LT] Dueling Buckler and Shield-Hand Knife

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Originally Posted by Verjigorm View Post
It's the distal tip. Notice the difference in the tips between the modern knife at the top, and the 18th century one at the bottom? The 18th century example has a reinforced distal tip. Allowing a distal tip weapon the bonus to targeting chinks in armor sounds reasonable.
The ideal shape for penetrating armour is a long, thin spike. Reinforcing the tip makes it harder to penetrate armour, not easier. These kinds of weapons were not designed for armour penetration but to strengthen the blade. The tip was reinforced to make it less likely to break when it incidentally encounters armour or bone.
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Old 04-24-2019, 09:02 PM   #13
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Default Re: [MA] [LT] Dueling Buckler and Shield-Hand Knife

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
That you know of. In both videos he's sacrificing some amount of control by griping two objects at once, he doesn't have full contact with the grips of either. This to me sounds very much like a -2 to both skills.
Well, you don't know that either :) That some of the other guys are exercising this option shows me that it was common enough that they thought the reduction in their skill level was not significant.
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Old 04-25-2019, 09:09 AM   #14
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Default Re: [MA] [LT] Dueling Buckler and Shield-Hand Knife

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Originally Posted by seycyrus View Post
That some of the other guys are exercising this option shows me that it was common enough that they thought the reduction in their skill level was not significant.
Shows that they thought the cost was worthwhile, which is not the same thing as "insignificant". A skilled warrior might be willing to eat a -2 to skill to gain some extra flexibility or opportunity. Even if that's popular, it doesn't mean that the penalty should be -0.
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Old 04-25-2019, 04:39 PM   #15
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Default Re: [MA] [LT] Dueling Buckler and Shield-Hand Knife

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Shows that they thought the cost was worthwhile, which is not the same thing as "insignificant". A skilled warrior might be willing to eat a -2 to skill to gain some extra flexibility or opportunity. Even if that's popular, it doesn't mean that the penalty should be -0.
The penalty is that you use use that hand to block, you can't use it to stab. If you use it to stab, you won't be blocking with it.

Those guys aren't skilled warriors (lets ignore the hokyness of the entire video for the moment), and you can tell that they are pretty comfortable holding those items in that manner. Almost like they were designed to have the option to be held that way.

Of course, if they used it to stab, they'd still take a penalty for OHA.
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Old 04-25-2019, 05:19 PM   #16
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Default Re: [MA] [LT] Dueling Buckler and Shield-Hand Knife

-2 makes sense to me too; both for realism and for game balance.
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Old 04-25-2019, 06:23 PM   #17
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Default Re: [MA] [LT] Dueling Buckler and Shield-Hand Knife

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Originally Posted by seycyrus View Post
The penalty is that you use use that hand to block, you can't use it to stab. If you use it to stab, you won't be blocking with it.
Erm... what? If I use my sword to stab I can still parry with it. Likewise is I use my shield to bash, I can still block with it. Same holds true here, if you stab with the knife you can still block with the buckler, and if you bash with the buckler you can still parry with the knife.
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Old 04-25-2019, 08:46 PM   #18
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Default Re: [MA] [LT] Dueling Buckler and Shield-Hand Knife

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Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
The ideal shape for penetrating armour is a long, thin spike. Reinforcing the tip makes it harder to penetrate armour, not easier. These kinds of weapons were not designed for armour penetration but to strengthen the blade. The tip was reinforced to make it less likely to break when it incidentally encounters armour or bone.
So this kind of knife wouldn't actually be "armor piercing" in GURPS sense?
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:27 PM   #19
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Default Re: [MA] [LT] Dueling Buckler and Shield-Hand Knife

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Originally Posted by Sorenant View Post
In GURPS terms, he'd be suffering -2 to use both skills, plus -2 off hand penalty to Knife skill.
I thought off hand penalty was -4 to DX.
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Old 04-26-2019, 09:27 AM   #20
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Default Re: [MA] [LT] Dueling Buckler and Shield-Hand Knife

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Erm... what? If I use my sword to stab I can still parry with it. Likewise is I use my shield to bash, I can still block with it. Same holds true here, if you stab with the knife you can still block with the buckler, and if you bash with the buckler you can still parry with the knife.
I guess I just don't see it happening. Stabbing downward with the dagger as the two are held in that manner really seems to preclude that hand blocking with the buckler. The reverse also seems to be true, try it.

On the other hand, you can block all day with that buckler, holding a thin-handled blade and not have problems. Same thing with ice-pick stab with the dagger. I don't think the combination shifts the center of mass more than a few percent.
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