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Old 04-25-2019, 12:59 PM   #1
phayman53
 
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Default How applicable is Dungeon Fantasy 16: Wilderness Adventures to non-DF Game?

I am considering my next GURPS purchase to help me run a non-DF Low-Tech fantasy game that is more realistic in its tone (even though it is fantasy). It will involve a fair amount of outdoor adventuring. I am not a tremendously experienced GM, so I always appreciate rules help and ideas, which has made me curious how helpful Dungeon Fantasy 16: Wilderness Adventures would be for my game.

I know it is geared for DF, but would the rules make sense in a more realistic setting? Do you need the other DF supplements to make sense of it, or does it stand alone for the most part? Are there other resources that would be better, like Pyramid 3/16: Historical Exploration?

I own Basic, Fantasy, Banestorm, Low-Tech as well as many other supplements like ATE: 1 &2, Martial Arts, and LT Companions 2 & 3, but unless I am missing something, most of these don't have the kinds of worked examples for adventuring outdoors in a low-tech setting that I am thinking Wilderness Adventures has. That said, I don't want to buy it only to find out I need the other DF supplements to make sense of it or that its feel doesn't work at all for a more realistic game.
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Old 04-25-2019, 01:10 PM   #2
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Default Re: How applicable is Dungeon Fantasy 16: Wilderness Adventures to non-DF Game?

I used it in a non-DF game where the PC's party spent a lot of time stomping around in the wilderness. It worked well, and didn't require other DF books to be useful. I think it refers to the simpler rules on wilderness camping in DF2 once or twice, but it's nothing that you can't work around. I'd say that the first dozen pages of DF16 (a 60 page book) are DF specific (they deal with the various DF templates), but the rest is generally applicable.
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Old 04-25-2019, 01:51 PM   #3
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Default Re: How applicable is Dungeon Fantasy 16: Wilderness Adventures to non-DF Game?

To give you a reference point: The rules for outdoor exploration and survival in GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 16: Wilderness Adventures are roughly as cinematic as the rules for commando, detective, and spy activities in GURPS Action 2: Exploits.

In more absolute terms: Those rules are based on realistic rules from various other Third and Fourth Edition supplements, but whenever they run into either "too much math" or "too much lethality," they relent to make the game more fun. Which isn't to say they're toothless; they retain enough risk to make the relevant tasks useful as challenges to even powerful characters (who are, after all, the baseline in Dungeon Fantasy and Action).

All told, I'd say the rules are more than good enough for a gaming group accustomed to larger-than-life gaming where little details like having to dress warmly, eat, pee, and sleep are simply ignored. By comparison to that, they'll seem almost harshly realistic! But for a gaming group accustomed to counting every bandage, battery, bean, and bullet – say, real-life preppers, or history nuts who can't invest in a setting that doesn't have rotten teeth and lead poisoning from the cookware – they may well seem too forgiving.
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Old 04-25-2019, 01:58 PM   #4
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Default Re: How applicable is Dungeon Fantasy 16: Wilderness Adventures to non-DF Game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
I used it in a non-DF game where the PC's party spent a lot of time stomping around in the wilderness. It worked well, and didn't require other DF books to be useful. I think it refers to the simpler rules on wilderness camping in DF2 once or twice, but it's nothing that you can't work around. I'd say that the first dozen pages of DF16 (a 60 page book) are DF specific (they deal with the various DF templates), but the rest is generally applicable.
Good to know it works with non-DF and that the much of the book is generally applicable, thank you.

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
To give you a reference point: The rules for outdoor exploration and survival in GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 16: Wilderness Adventures are roughly as cinematic as the rules for commando, detective, and spy activities in GURPS Action 2: Exploits.

In more absolute terms: Those rules are based on realistic rules from various other Third and Fourth Edition supplements, but whenever they run into either "too much math" or "too much lethality," they relent to make the game more fun. Which isn't to say they're toothless; they retain enough risk to make the relevant tasks useful as challenges to even powerful characters (who are, after all, the baseline in Dungeon Fantasy and Action).

All told, I'd say the rules are more than good enough for a gaming group accustomed to larger-than-life gaming where little details like having to dress warmly, eat, pee, and sleep are simply ignored. By comparison to that, they'll seem almost harshly realistic! But for a gaming group accustomed to counting every bandage, battery, bean, and bullet – say, real-life preppers, or history nuts who can't invest in a setting that doesn't have rotten teeth and lead poisoning from the cookware – they may well seem too forgiving.
That gives me a reference point, thank you Dr. Kromm! I think it sounds about right for my group as, while they are history enthusiasts, I don't think any one of them is going to want to count the kind of detail that a true simulationist would.

As with so many of us, I really appreciate you and the other GURPS staff/writers engaging so much on these forums.
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Old 04-27-2019, 01:57 AM   #5
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Default Re: How applicable is Dungeon Fantasy 16: Wilderness Adventures to non-DF Game?

I personally think the rules for gathering food are a bit more sensible than the basic set.
First, they are more modular, secondly, they avoid that weird aspect of getting to gather plants and fish OR hunt but no other combination.
...and they do not really seem any more realistic, really, or harsh.

So I would always use DF foraging over Basic Set foraging.
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Old 04-27-2019, 08:21 AM   #6
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Default Re: How applicable is Dungeon Fantasy 16: Wilderness Adventures to non-DF Game?

When I wrote hall of judgment, I transposed over some wilderness travel, exploration, and survival rules from a different game system. During extensive re-writing before publication, we used the wilderness adventures book as a touchstone to ensure the results were more or less similar. There are some enhancements that can be made for things like temperature exposure that you might find useful in HoJ if you have it.
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Old 04-27-2019, 11:33 AM   #7
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Default Re: How applicable is Dungeon Fantasy 16: Wilderness Adventures to non-DF Game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
But for a gaming group accustomed to counting every bandage, battery, bean, and bullet – say, real-life preppers, or history nuts who can't invest in a setting that doesn't have rotten teeth and lead poisoning from the cookware – they may well seem too forgiving.
An aside, but just to disarm a myth, rotting teeth wasn't really as common during the medieval period as most people think. Before about the sixteenth century, sugar was an exotic spice in Europe.
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Old 04-27-2019, 12:07 PM   #8
Kromm
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Default Re: How applicable is Dungeon Fantasy 16: Wilderness Adventures to non-DF Game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanW View Post

An aside, but just to disarm a myth, rotting teeth wasn't really as common during the medieval period as most people think. Before about the sixteenth century, sugar was an exotic spice in Europe.
Though one of the biggest causes of rotting teeth is fruit, which is sugary and leaves bits stuck between the teeth. "Eating apples is good for your teeth" is also a myth.
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Old 04-27-2019, 09:01 PM   #9
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Default Re: How applicable is Dungeon Fantasy 16: Wilderness Adventures to non-DF Game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
An aside, but just to disarm a myth, rotting teeth wasn't really as common during the medieval period as most people think. Before about the sixteenth century, sugar was an exotic spice in Europe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Though one of the biggest causes of rotting teeth is fruit, which is sugary and leaves bits stuck between the teeth. "Eating apples is good for your teeth" is also a myth.
Well, as long as we are going on a fun aside (it is my thread after all :-) ), there is this really interesting video about just this myth:

Did people have bad teeth in medieval times?

I found it really fascinating as it is yet another case where we seem to assume that pre-modern people were stupid and supremely unhealthy when they were not.
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Old 04-28-2019, 09:06 AM   #10
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Default Re: How applicable is Dungeon Fantasy 16: Wilderness Adventures to non-DF Game?

Wasn't there a Pyramid devoted to (non-DF) outdoor adventures?
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