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Old 04-30-2017, 08:14 AM   #1
seycyrus
 
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Default TK Grab in the "dark" (line of sight questions)

TK grab as described on pg. 54 of psionic powers has a range of "...anything you can see...".

Is this description also meant to serve as a hard limitation, or are other more routine modifiers meant to be applied to represent task difficulty? If so, what's an appropriate way to address the following situations.

A) Teke is moving a vial across the laboratory floor, when the bad guy cuts out the lights. Does Teke automatically lose control of the vial?

B) Similar to A) Teke is fighting a bad guy about 20 yards away, using his TK grab to control a weapon. The bad guy is able to manipulate positions sufficiently, so that Teke's line of sight to his weapon is interrupted. Does Teke automatically lose control of the weapon?

C) Teke is a classic nerd with a thick pair of glasses. When he goes to bed, he puts them on his nightstand, and KNOWS EXACTLY where they are. Woken up in the middle of the night (pitch back), can Teke grab his glasses with TK grab?

D) Teke is on the wrong side of a door that's secured with a deadbolt. There is no lock-key mechanism involved. Teke has a good idea (within a few inches) where the thumb-turn is located on the other side of the door, but can't see it directly. Can he use his TK grab open the deadbolt?
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Old 04-30-2017, 08:33 AM   #2
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Default Re: TK Grab in the "dark" (line of sight questions)

Increased Range, LOS is pretty clear in that a clear view is needed. It is there to balance the much cheaper very long range.

So
A-B: yes he loses control.
C: cannot do it so TK Tether perk is a good idea for him
D: Cannot use it as cannot see with own eyes.
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Old 04-30-2017, 09:43 AM   #3
Donny Brook
 
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Default Re: TK Grab in the "dark" (line of sight questions)

Add the Selectivity (+10%) enhancement to switch off LoS.
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Old 04-30-2017, 10:54 AM   #4
seycyrus
 
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Default Re: TK Grab in the "dark" (line of sight questions)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
Add the Selectivity (+10%) enhancement to switch off LoS.
In this case, this seems to be a rather cheap way (1 pt.) to get around what looks to be meant as a serious restriction. Isn't selectivity meant to apply to enhancements, not limitations?
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Old 04-30-2017, 11:07 AM   #5
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Default Re: TK Grab in the "dark" (line of sight questions)

Quote:
Originally Posted by seycyrus View Post
In this case, this seems to be a rather cheap way (1 pt.) to get around what looks to be meant as a serious restriction. Isn't selectivity meant to apply to enhancements, not limitations?
Luckily, Increased Range, LoS is an Enhancement (+70%). Switching it off reverts TK to its 10 yard range and leaves it subject to the regular vision rules. BTW, it's 1 point more per level.

Another thing to do would be to link one or more of your senses to your TK using the rules in GURPS Power Ups 4.
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Old 04-30-2017, 11:12 AM   #6
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Default Re: TK Grab in the "dark" (line of sight questions)

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Originally Posted by seycyrus View Post
In this case, this seems to be a rather cheap way (1 pt.) to get around what looks to be meant as a serious restriction. Isn't selectivity meant to apply to enhancements, not limitations?
The LOS is an enchantment. So when you turn it off you lose both the beneficial and detrimental effects of it. So with selectivity off you are limited to 10 yard range but not the visual part.

If you want longer range TK without the visual part you may want to just buy Increased Range normally instead of LOS version.
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Old 04-30-2017, 12:35 PM   #7
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Default Re: TK Grab in the "dark" (line of sight questions)

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Originally Posted by weby View Post
The LOS is an enchantment. So when you turn it off you lose both the beneficial and detrimental effects of it. So with selectivity off you are limited to 10 yard range but not the visual part. ...
If selectivity was off, what modifiers would you suggest in the examples I outlined in my original post?
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Old 04-30-2017, 01:27 PM   #8
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Default Re: TK Grab in the "dark" (line of sight questions)

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Originally Posted by seycyrus View Post
If selectivity was off, what modifiers would you suggest in the examples I outlined in my original post?
A) He does not lose control of the vial. He can continue to push it, but steering it would be subject to the vision penalties for whatever the resulting light condition is.

B) He does not lose control of his weapon. Since you don't need to look at a weapon in your hand to use it, I would say there is no penalty unless his view of the opponent is blocked.

C) I'd apply the same penalty as for finding glasses in the dark with hands.

D) -6 or -10 depending on how convinced I am that he really knows where the thing is.

Note that I have a vague memory of Kromm having written that there is a basic level of tactility in the imaginary TK "hands", but I doubt I can find it now.
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Old 05-01-2017, 12:22 AM   #9
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Default Re: TK Grab in the "dark" (line of sight questions)

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Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
A) He does not lose control of the vial. He can continue to push it, but steering it would be subject to the vision penalties for whatever the resulting light condition is.
There would be a penalty with maximum -6 for total darkness. Note that moving an object in straight line is normally a very easy task for a positive difficulty basically a DX 9 person could normally expect to succeed that 98% of the time so give it a +7 or such for a total of +1.

Quote:
B) He does not lose control of his weapon. Since you don't need to look at a weapon in your hand to use it, I would say there is no penalty unless his view of the opponent is blocked.
Note that you do not get tactile feel with telekinesis so doing things with the weapon is more difficult but just moving it to where you can see it well enough to hit with is fairly easy. I would not require a roll for such move.

Quote:

C) I'd apply the same penalty as for finding glasses in the dark with hands.
Note that using both hands an TK together gets a +4 and people can normally succeed in grabbing glasses without a penalty so there is likely a positive task difficulty. With the maximum known location targeting penalty for darkeners of -6, and getting +4 and adding a fairly large positive modifier you end up at a small positive modifier of say +2, if you did with TK only you would then have about -2.

Quote:
D) -6 or -10 depending on how convinced I am that he really knows where the thing is.
Again grabbing a latch or similar is a positive modifier thing as again very few people fail when they see it. Adding the -6 and you are left with a small penalty likely. I would go with say -2 or thereabouts bit depending on the type.

Quote:
Note that I have a vague memory of Kromm having written that there is a basic level of tactility in the imaginary TK "hands", but I doubt I can find it now.
He actually said the opposite:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Blindness limits Telekinesis (TK) no more and no less than it does any other ranged ability. You can aim TK blind, at the usual -6 or so. You can use it with compensatory senses, such as Scanning Sense or Vibration Sense. Or you can learn Blind Fighting. However, TK doesn't give you remote tactile feedback for free; like any other character, if you want that, you must buy Clairsentience. Also, note that Blindness is a -50-point disadvantage. I'm not sure why on earth TK would not be subject to its drawbacks when hands and Innate Attack blasts are.
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Old 05-01-2017, 09:54 AM   #10
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Default Re: TK Grab in the "dark" (line of sight questions)

IIRC, the discussion I am thinking of was about how TK knows not to mutilate what you are handling.
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