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Old 01-09-2015, 08:21 AM   #11
Nereidalbel
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ellicott City, MD
Default Re: [Basic] Tinkering with Afflictions

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Yes (the setting for the campaign in question is low mana), but it's not obvious what it applies to: there's no roll to make an Affliction work, so does it apply to the roll to hit, or perhaps boost the resistance roll? I presume I could buy Reliable to counter the -5?
The -5 is applied to the skill roll to hit a target. For a Melee one, though, it could just be a Follow-Up to your unarmed strikes, and you get no penalty to strike with your hands.
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Old 01-09-2015, 08:27 AM   #12
johndallman
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Tinkering with Afflictions

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Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen View Post
if you're the one sitting behind the GM's screen. If you're not, it's not worth asking.
That presumes a lot about the GM-player relationship. They aren't always like the ones that seem to bave scarred you.

I doubt I'm going to buy this power, even if I can get it into the budget and make it effective, simply because there are a lot of other good uses for 5-7 sessions worth of experience points. However, it's interesting to see if I can find a pure RAW way of doing this, and if it suggests a neat way of changing Affliction. I'm better at solving fully-specified problems than generalised ones.
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Old 01-09-2015, 08:48 AM   #13
Nereidalbel
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Tinkering with Afflictions

If you just want to drop somebody quickly without the risk of accidentally murdering them, you could use Fatigue Attack instead. Same base price as Afflicition, but, it's cheaper. Consider the following:
Fatigue Attack 3: Contact Agent, -30% Magical, -10% Melee Attack: Reach C, -30% Cannot Parry, -5% No Signature, +20% [14]
ANY DR will block this, but, just touching somebody's hand is enough to drop them quickly.
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Old 01-09-2015, 08:57 AM   #14
Gnome
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Tinkering with Afflictions

Action p.24 has a rule for "kayoing" someone without the need for a special power. Basically it's a cinematic campaign option, so ask your GM about that (or about buying Rules Exemption (Can Kayo) [1] if it's not a generally available maneuver in the world).

As others have mentioned, Afflictions are generally a really bad deal unless you buy Malediction, at which point they become a rather good deal. But your description makes it clear that you're talking about a physical attack, so Malediction doesn't fit so well either.
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Old 01-09-2015, 03:02 PM   #15
johndallman
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Tinkering with Afflictions

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Originally Posted by Gnome View Post
Action p.24 has a rule for "kayoing" someone ...
Ah, Action 3 p24 - had to hunt a bit. The campaign is not cinematic in that way, and the character lacks advanced martial-arts skills to make it more plausible.
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Originally Posted by Nereidalbel View Post
Fatigue Attack 3: Contact Agent, -30% Magical, -10% Melee Attack: Reach C, -30% Cannot Parry, -5% No Signature, +20% [14]
I think I'd want more levels to be fairly certain of dropping them to 0FP or less. But it's not a take-out AFAICS: they can talk, and thus shout, and can take any action on a successful Will roll.
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Old 01-09-2015, 03:05 PM   #16
Nereidalbel
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Tinkering with Afflictions

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
I think I'd want more levels to be fairly certain of dropping them to 0FP or less. But it's not a take-out AFAICS: they can talk, and thus shout, and can take any action on a successful Will roll.
At 3d, the average person is at 0 FP on an average roll. That much FP loss at once is an instant roll, on top of rolling every second they take an action that isn't Do Nothing. This includes the use of Free Actions, such as speech. If you bump it up to 4d, you're knocking the HT12 guy out on the average roll, still for less than 20 points.
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Old 01-09-2015, 03:18 PM   #17
johndallman
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Tinkering with Afflictions

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Originally Posted by Nereidalbel View Post
At 3d, the average person is at 0 FP on an average roll.
Average isn't quite reliable enough for the infiltrations we have to do in this campaign, and the numbers of opponents who are potentially around. The stakes tend to be rather high.
Quote:
That much FP loss at once is an instant roll,
I can't see that on B426 - do you know where it is in the RAW?
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on top of rolling every second they take an action that isn't Do Nothing. This includes the use of Free Actions, such as speech.
This is not supported by B426. I haven't used fatigue attacks much, but you clearly feel they're better than I'm seeing in the rules: should I be looking at some other page?

Or do we have a mismatch in expectations? The desired result is taking someone right out, while he isn't in combat, not slowing him down while someone else is fighting him.
Quote:
If you bump it up to 4d, you're knocking the HT12 guy out on the average roll, still for less than 20 points.
Yup, which is why 5d is more attractive than 4d. Betting on getting average rolls all the time is not the way to survive 70+ sessions of play.

Last edited by johndallman; 01-09-2015 at 03:21 PM. Reason: clarify
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Old 01-09-2015, 09:45 PM   #18
Nereidalbel
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Tinkering with Afflictions

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Average isn't quite reliable enough for the infiltrations we have to do in this campaign, and the numbers of opponents who are potentially around. The stakes tend to be rather high.

I can't see that on B426 - do you know where it is in the RAW?

This is not supported by B426. I haven't used fatigue attacks much, but you clearly feel they're better than I'm seeing in the rules: should I be looking at some other page?

Or do we have a mismatch in expectations? The desired result is taking someone right out, while he isn't in combat, not slowing him down while someone else is fighting him.

Yup, which is why 5d is more attractive than 4d. Betting on getting average rolls all the time is not the way to survive 70+ sessions of play.
Then add Melee: Dual for just [1] point, and touch the guy with both hands for a net 6d FP loss.
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Old 01-10-2015, 07:38 AM   #19
Anders
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Tinkering with Afflictions

There's an idea kicking around on the forums, that extra levels of Affliction should cost 1/5 of the parent Affliction. That makes more than one level of Affliction feasible, but it may be overpowered. YMMV.
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Old 01-10-2015, 12:22 PM   #20
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: [Basic] Tinkering with Afflictions

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Originally Posted by Anders View Post
There's an idea kicking around on the forums, that extra levels of Affliction should cost 1/5 of the parent Affliction. That makes more than one level of Affliction feasible, but it may be overpowered. YMMV.
ISTR that Sean Punch is on record as having admitted that levels beyond the first of Affliction are wildly overpriced and should cost only 3 or perhaps even just 2 points per level.

The benefit of my suggestion, however, is that the GM can (if he's fairness-minded - this excludes the majority) re-tune the power of additional levels of Affliction while point values remain unchanged. For instance, he can start out with -4 to resistance rolls per level of Affliction after the first, and play with that for some sessions, see how it goes, then based on that he can decide thta it's good and let it be for longer, or he can change the modifier to -5 per level or -3 per level, or even -2 or -6 per level.
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