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Old 09-15-2013, 04:24 AM   #81
Ze'Manel Cunha
 
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Default Re: Flat Black

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Originally Posted by Agemegos View Post
IN ratings do the work of, and enjoy the pay of, USN warrant officers. Robots and machines do the work of USN enlisted men.
To me it makes sense for professional personnel who aren't normally in the chain of command to be Warrants, even if in today's Navies those people often get commissions for pay reasons alone.

That way if the bridge crew gets toasted no one bats an eye when the Petty Officer takes command of the ship, while the medical officers continue to work in sick-bay, the engineers continue to work in engineering, and the pilots continue to control their charges.

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Well, I'm not very fond of "astronaut", but to me "spacer" sounds too informal to be a good title. Naval ratings have been called "sailors" and that's a current general term including non-military seamen, but the ratings' military titles are such as "Able Seamen" and "Leading Seaman", not "Sailor" or "Able Sailor".
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What about "rating", without it being a placeholder for any of a long list of specialist titles?
I like that, "Leading Rate Munson to the loading dock, Able Rating Silva to engineering.", sounds better on the ear to me.
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Old 09-15-2013, 04:35 AM   #82
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Default Re: Flat Black

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Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha View Post
To me it makes sense for professional personnel who aren't normally in the chain of command to be Warrants, even if in today's Navies those people often get commissions for pay reasons alone.
It makes at least as much sense for restricted line officers to hold command within their specialities, but not to succeed to command of combat units.

Anyway: it isn't that I haven't thought about organising things the American way. I've thought about it and decided not to. The RN and RAN show me that things can actually work the way everyone does them except the Americans; that's good enough for me. I understand and accept that you like the arrangements that you are used to. Nevertheless, I will not adopt them for FLAT BLACK.

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That way if the bridge crew gets toasted no one bats an eye when the Petty Officer takes command of the ship, while the medical officers continue to work in sick-bay, the engineers continue to work in engineering, and the pilots continue to control their charges.
And what is this petty officer doing while the bridge crew is not toasted? There is nothing to do on these TL10 spaceships that is less technically demanding than the tasks you want to make warrant-officer work.

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I like that, "Leading Rate Munson to the loading dock, Able Rating Silva to engineering.", sounds better on the ear to me.
What does the fearsome pudding think?
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Last edited by Agemegos; 09-15-2013 at 05:01 AM.
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Old 09-15-2013, 05:46 AM   #83
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Default Re: Flat Black

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And what is this petty officer doing while the bridge crew is not toasted? There is nothing to do on these TL10 spaceships that is less technically demanding than the tasks you want to make warrant-officer work.
He's running the ship like always, except if the bridge crew is alive he gets orders from them instead of making the decisions himself.
That's the way things mostly work now anyway.
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Old 09-15-2013, 08:29 AM   #84
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Default Re: Flat Black

Why is an E5 running the ship? Shouldn't an O6 or the ship's mind be running the ship? Why does the petty officer have to be out-ranked by warrant officers to do it? If the E5 knows enough orbital mechanics and so forth to run the ship, how come we don't have to pay him like a highly-skilled warrant officer?

Given that automation and robots in the ship leave no tasks to do other than ones that require highly-skilled technicians, then if all the highly-skilled technicians are warrant officers, we seem to have the lowest-ranked person in the spaceship running it. I think that is odd.
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Last edited by Agemegos; 09-15-2013 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 09-15-2013, 08:54 AM   #85
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Why is an E5 running the ship? Shouldn't an O6 or the ship's mind be running the ship?
The O6 or the ship's mind determines what the ship will be doing and where it'll be going, but the normal day to day running of any ship, and the running of any department is actually done by a Petty Officer.
Commissioned officers are basically backroom managers, NCOs are hands on floor managers.

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Why does the petty officer have to be out-ranked by warrant officers to do it?
If you want a professional expert, a doctor, engineer, researcher, aboard who isn't a line officer, having them be Warrants is a nice option.

Mind this is a matter of taste, and I'm not trying to push you to change your setting, just offering another point of view.

In the RCN series, as an example, Warrant Adele Mundy is an information expert, one of the best in her field and a scion of a leading family, but she's no line officer.
Granted the tech in the RCN series is truly weird and they have a ton of uneducated men to lead, but leading men and being a field expert are very different things.
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Old 09-15-2013, 09:46 AM   #86
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Default Re: Flat Black

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The O6 or the ship's mind determines what the ship will be doing and where it'll be going, but the normal day to day running of any ship, and the running of any department is actually done by a Petty Officer.
This "department" would consist of robots, autonomic machinery, and highly-skilled technical specialists. Nearly all routine tasks are done by automatics and robots directed by the autonomic processes of the ship's brain, that administrative routine is handled by AIs running on redundant distributed 'frames. It's tech level ten.

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Commissioned officers are basically backroom managers, NCOs are hands on floor managers.
Managing what? Routine administration is performed by AI processes running on the ship's brain.

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If you want a professional expert, a doctor, engineer, researcher, aboard who isn't a line officer, having them be Warrants is a nice option.
It's an option that every navy on Earth except the USN and USCG manages without. Making them officers but not in the warfare (unrestricted line) specialisation works fine.

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Mind this is a matter of taste, and I'm not trying to push you to change your setting, just offering another point of view.
Okay. I've heard it, I understand it, I've decided against it for both in-setting and thematic reasons.

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In the RCN series, as an example, Warrant Adele Mundy is an information expert, one of the best in her field and a scion of a leading family, but she's no line officer.
Granted the tech in the RCN series is truly weird and they have a ton of uneducated men to lead, but leading men and being a field expert are very different things.
FLAT BLACK is very different from that. There is no good employment for uneducated men in my Imperial Navy. There aren't large crews that need to be led. Rather, the robotics and level of automation are two whole tech levels ahead of a Mars rover or a Predator drone. Automatics aim and focus the lasers; robots top up the coolant. AIs running on frames deal with reporting and record-keeping and keeping track of stores. Robots take inventory.
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Last edited by Agemegos; 09-15-2013 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 09-15-2013, 01:07 PM   #87
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Default Re: Flat Black

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What does the fearsome pudding think?
Me? I still like Astronaut. It seems like a natural historical term to separate a government service spacer from a civilian one.
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Old 09-15-2013, 02:05 PM   #88
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Me? I still like Astronaut. It seems like a natural historical term to separate a government service spacer from a civilian one.
Civilians are astronauts too, the term applies to anyone who travels in space.
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Old 09-15-2013, 02:13 PM   #89
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Default Re: Flat Black

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Civilians are astronauts too, the term applies to anyone who travels in space.
There's nobody currently being born, living, and running a comic book store in space. I submit that that the person who is born, lives, and runs a comic book store in space would consider himself a comic book store owner rather than an astronaut.
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Old 09-15-2013, 03:50 PM   #90
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Default Re: Flat Black

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There's nobody currently being born, living, and running a comic book store in space. I submit that that the person who is born, lives, and runs a comic book store in space would consider himself a comic book store owner rather than an astronaut.
Why would anyone run a comic book store in space?
Besides, if they're born and live in space they aren't human, since atmospheres are a necessary thing.

Not to mention that no one runs a comic book store at sea either.
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