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Old 07-12-2019, 02:48 PM   #11
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: advice for Oriental characters in Melee

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Originally Posted by Stormcro View Post
I'm Behind the times, I still have my original copy of ITL ( I scanned and reprinted it for myself about 20 years ago the old copy was falling apart) my old book doesn't have that section just weapons table. I hope to get the new book soon, I'd like to get the hard backed copy someday. :)
In the old rules it is in Advanced Melee.


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Originally Posted by Stormcro View Post
thank you - I'm going to write these down. I think I have a Japanese GURPS book in my library but I'm unable to find it.... the ones in GURPS are probably over powered for TFT anyhow.
IIRC the powerful weapons in GURPS Japan that aren't in TFT are mainly the much higher-ST bows, and maybe the armor that's proofed against muskets.

I actually think the most overpowered thing I mentioned would be the kusari as Whip, just because TFT whips/etc don't tend to have any saving roll to avoid - if the enemy makes they're roll, anyone is entangled, RAW.
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:39 PM   #12
Stormcro
 
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Default Re: advice for Oriental characters in Melee

excellent ! thank you - I'll look in my original Advanced Melee . Yeah I think the GURPS might be a bit over the top for TFT. I like the whip idea! would you say the range on that would be 1 hex front adjacent - because my son would try to loophole the reach especially battling his kid sister. :D
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Old 07-12-2019, 04:09 PM   #13
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Default Re: advice for Oriental characters in Melee

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormcro View Post
I'm Behind the times, I still have my original copy of ITL ( I scanned and reprinted it for myself about 20 years ago the old copy was falling apart) my old book doesn't have that section just weapons table. I hope to get the new book soon, I'd like to get the hard backed copy someday. :)
Advanced Melee p12 then.
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Old 07-12-2019, 09:04 PM   #14
Stormcro
 
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Default Re: advice for Oriental characters in Melee

I found my GURPS Japan 2nd ed. book it shows
for a Katana :
Str: 11
for Cutting Swing +1 and 1,2 hex swing
for impail Throw +1 with 1 hex area
and if Scabbarded for Crushing type weapon and
that is listed as swing +1 I don't think that I'd
use that +1 modifier with the scabbard on the sword.
do you guys think that's pretty fair stats (other than
the scabbard) and only allow a +1 modifier for a
fine sword or a Unique character for the swords hand-
led by Samarai.
Advanced Melee calls for a Broadsword for a Katana with
2 dice no modifier and a Str: 12

Naganata is a pretty brutal weapon only downfall is it
takes a turn to ready the weapon after an attack but
I feel I should give it a +2 because you're wide open
after you've made your attack. GURPS gives it a +3 but
probably too much for TFT.

the Kusari that Skarg mentioned above is pretty brutal too
GURPS gives it +2

a +4 on a Nodachi ! yikes - I think the Nodachi swords were used by Bushi or Samurai on Horseback anyway doubt anyone would want to be caught up in a Melee on the ground with a Nodachi.

I want to thank everyone for your help getting me and my kids up to speed on our Oriental fighters. I'm going to make up a few characters, some Samurai and Ronin along with some Bushi and have them try to clean out a local village of some sinister
Oni and see how it turns out. I'm still open for ideas and references. I've read the boards for quite a long time but finally got up the nerve to ask some questions. thanks for your kindness and time.
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Old 07-13-2019, 11:36 AM   #15
ldorn
 
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Default Re: advice for Oriental characters in Melee

You might also want to check out these Space Gamer articles:

Harmonious Fists in Melee by David James Ritchie #16 pg 12-13
More Harmony for Fists in Melee by Ronald Pehr #18 pg 17
Letters, re: Oriental Weapons by Ronald Pehr #24 pg 30
Again, Harmonious Fists by David James Ritchie #25 pg 16-18

Some of this has been added into Advanced Melee/Legacy Edition ITL but is still interesting.
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Old 07-13-2019, 06:43 PM   #16
Skarg
 
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Default Re: advice for Oriental characters in Melee

Comparing GURPS and TFT oriental weapon stats is a bit tricky because:

1) the game systems work differently (engagement, skills, active defenses, retreats, damage types, maneuvers, etc)

2) the scale is different (5-second TFT turns vs. 1-second GURPS turns, 4-foot (or originally, 1.3m) TFT hexes vs. 3-foot GURPS hexes), which affects both reach and GURPS readying times.

3) the thinking about what some of the weapons are is different (GURPS naginata is a polearm, while TFT naginata is a light "peculiar" weapon, and the nunchucks difference I mentioned before).

I'd note too that GURPS stats for katanas have also changed in later editions, which (if you have GURPS Basic Set Campaigns and GURPS Martial Arts 4e) have early and late versions, the post-Tokugawa-era ones being shorter. Essentially they're rated as either bastard swords (the Tokugawa and earlier ones) or broadswords (the later ones) but doing 1 point less impaling damage than a Western/straight thrusting sword.

In TFT I just do the same and decide they vary and can either have broadsword or bastardsword stats as desired, and than they can be finely made (up to the usual limits of +2 damage, +1 DX).

I would not try to import GURPS stats into TFT unless I were doing it for all weapons & armor, or via some comparison/conversion process.

Kusari in GURPS MA is listed as range 1-4. I'd might have it therefore be reach 1-3 in TFT, and like TFT whips but I'd want to give victims some DX roll to avoid just being made automatically helpless on a hit. I like crunchy mechanics so I'd probably want something where people with weapons in hand are more likely to resist but may get their weapon entangled etc.
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Old 07-14-2019, 06:59 AM   #17
Stormcro
 
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Default Re: advice for Oriental characters in Melee

Quote:
Originally Posted by ldorn View Post
You might also want to check out these Space Gamer articles:

Harmonious Fists in Melee by David James Ritchie #16 pg 12-13
More Harmony for Fists in Melee by Ronald Pehr #18 pg 17
Letters, re: Oriental Weapons by Ronald Pehr #24 pg 30
Again, Harmonious Fists by David James Ritchie #25 pg 16-18

Some of this has been added into Advanced Melee/Legacy Edition ITL but is still interesting.
I hope to get the Legacy set - someday, I missed the kickstarter my wife was ill with pancreatic cancer so I had to pass, thank-you for these references.
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Old 07-14-2019, 07:25 AM   #18
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Default Re: advice for Oriental characters in Melee

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
I would not try to import GURPS stats into TFT unless I were doing it for all weapons & armor, or via some comparison/conversion process.

Kusari in GURPS MA is listed as range 1-4. I'd might have it therefore be reach 1-3 in TFT, and like TFT whips but I'd want to give victims some DX roll to avoid just being made automatically helpless on a hit. I like crunchy mechanics so I'd probably want something where people with weapons in hand are more likely to resist but may get their weapon entangled etc.
I agree ! it's a lot of work as well. I'm happy with all that you guys have given me, I've got some characters ready for battle today with my kids. I'm excited to try it. I've got to order a new hex mat ( they got me a gift card for my birthday so I can pick one out. I feel like a kid again, since I've gotten my new copies of Melee and Wizard ( Death Test too) We have a board game called Okko ( it's a skirmish game) it's fun but doesn't have all of the tactics and depth of TFT so I've just about have it converted to TFT Melee and Wizard and want to run a small (off the cuff TFT-ITL ) series. my son plays GURPS and did so in university that's how I got hold of my GURPS material- I started him off with Melee when he was little and could grasp the rules. going to use the Kusari too by the way ! interesting weapon !
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Old 07-14-2019, 10:50 AM   #19
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Default Re: advice for Oriental characters in Melee

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I hope to get the Legacy set - someday, I missed the kickstarter my wife was ill with pancreatic cancer so I had to pass, thank-you for these references.
I'm very sorry to hear this. I hope she's okay! (I'm a renal cancer survivor -- they originally thought mine might be pancreatic too, but I got "lucky" since I had a spare kidney, so I know how tough your wife's particular form is to beat.)
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Old 07-14-2019, 10:12 PM   #20
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Default Re: advice for Oriental characters in Melee

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I'm very sorry to hear this. I hope she's okay! (I'm a renal cancer survivor -- they originally thought mine might be pancreatic too, but I got "lucky" since I had a spare kidney, so I know how tough your wife's particular form is to beat.)
I'm sorry to hear that you had to suffer as well, it was devastating news- she's my best friend.
the good news is she is cancer free now, we had awesome surgeons and staff here at University of Pittsburgh and they caught it early, she's a nurse so she knew something was wrong and she had pain which is unusual with pancreatic cancer, but the pain saved her life. she was stage 2 when it was discovered. I've been ill for about 10 years as well, so it really changed our lives. and we live one day at a time.
our hearts go out to anyone fighting cancer or supporting a loved one with it.
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