Pressure Points No Vitals!

[zoncxs]

So I noticed something recently, Martial artists can't use pressure points against vitals because to use pressure points you must first attack with karate (at -2) and there are no weapons available that can do piercing or impaling damage and be used with the karate skill, making most of pressure point usefulness pointless.

in regular GURPS you have lethal strike on page 404 of campaigns but nothing of the sort for DFRPG. Or did I miss it?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by zoncxs

in regular GURPS you have lethal strike on page 404 of campaigns but nothing of the sort for DFRPG. Or did I miss it?

Hm. That looks like a leftover from previous editions, where crushing attacks could target the vitals (they just didn't gain increased wounding for doing so).

I would change "other attacks cannot target the vitals" to "other attacks do not cause increased wounding". That still leaves some purpose (increased knockdown), though it's mostly pointless.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Hm. That looks like a leftover from previous editions, where crushing attacks could target the vitals (they just didn't gain increased wounding for doing so).

Actually it's another stealth optional rule slip in from Martials Arts...

Originally Posted by GURPS 4th Martial Arts pg 58

Pressure Points

The GM might want to let martial artists who know this skill attack pressure points that produce some of the effects under Realistic Injury (pp. 136-139), even in a cinematic game that doesn’t otherwise use those rules. All of these attacks work as usual for Pressure Points: the attacker must strike the target hit location at an extra -2, inflict at least a point of injury, and win a Quick Contest of Pressure Points against the victim’s HT.

Note the "extra -2". That means Vitals are targeted at -5. Just a note, it's something that slips by my Players all the time...

I would change "other attacks cannot target the vitals" to "other attacks do not cause increased wounding". That still leaves some purpose (increased knockdown), though it's mostly pointless.

Yeah, that's another optional rule in Martial Arts (in the Realistic Injury and Recovery section) you could use (which I do use):

Originally Posted by GURPS 4th Martial Arts pg 137

Vitals: Crushing attacks can target the “vitals” – e.g., the solar plexus from in front or the kidneys from behind – at -3. Wounding modifier is only x1, but shock requires a HT roll for knockdown, at -5 if a major wound.

And it's "pointlessness" is debatable, if for instance you want to perform "knockouts" on your foes rather than kill them, then vitals blows with crushing damage is the way to go. Also, the OP's Martial Artist having a skill and no ability to actually target one of it's locations.

[zoncxs]

The problem is that no where in DFRPG is such a thing mentioned.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by zoncxs

The problem is that no where in DFRPG is such a thing mentioned.

Yes, hence "it's another stealth optional rule slip in from"...

There are several in DF where assumptions are made using rules from outside of Basic and DF and a couple in DFRPG.


My guess? It's how Kromm runs his game and he's done it that way for so long he forgot it wasn't RAW and thus forgot to nudge the rules in DFRPG when he wrote it.

I'd say submit it as an errata request for DFRPG. Actually.... it might already be in the errata'd new version. Have to wait until I get it to see.

[Humabout]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Yes, hence "it's another stealth optional rule slip in from"...

But I thought the point of DFRPG was to have all of the rules explicitly available without resorting to GURPS books. Sure, GURPS has this stuff covered, but that's the point of GURPS. It has everything covered.

That said, if I were GMing a DFRPG monk...err...martial artist, I'd invoke the rule from MA.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Humabout

But I thought the point of DFRPG was to have all of the rules explicitly available without resorting to GURPS books.

I suspect it was a simple oversight as I mentioned above. And, as mentioned above, it might be corrected in the errata'd version.

Oops, nevermind, I just looked up what the errata was and this isn't in the brief description... looks like this needs to be submitted.

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...44#post2247944

[zoncxs]

I submitted the errata, mean while I found the power up for martial artists in a pyramid article:

3/61 page 12:

Master of Lethal Strikes 4 pts.

converts your unarmed strikes from crushing to piercing attacks. -1 to damage, requires hand wear with individual fingers.

[ArchonShiva]

Lacking any applicable printed rules within DFRPG, I’d say the specific trumps the general, and the cinematic ability Pressure Points can target vitals at -5. The injury modifier is based on pi or imp damage type, so no x3, though.

A stricter GM could make the case that potential unlisted powers, spells and magic items could empower a delver to perform pi or imp karate attacks (Catfolks can use cut Karate attacks, after all) and this this bit applies to these rare cases. That seems like a very boring interpretation, but would at potentially open the door to combat acupuncture.

[Kromm]

The specific is meant to trump the general. The idea is that you can thump people for your usual crushing damage, and take an extra -5 to hit (-3 for vitals, -2 for Pressure Points) to give a HT penalty. If it bugs you, change "Other damage types cannot target the vitals." to "Other damage types get no special benefits."