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Old 02-24-2017, 10:47 PM   #1
Edges
 
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Default What does Unfit apply to?

The Unfit disadvantage says that you lose FP at twice the normal rate. What does this apply to?

Does it apply to Extra Effort? Does it matter if the Extra Effort is in or out of combat? It says it applies to FP lost due to heat. Does this imply that it also applies to FP lost to other hazards like sleep debt, hunger, and thirst? Does it apply to the FP lost at the end of combat?

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Old 02-25-2017, 12:58 AM   #2
johndallman
 
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Default Re: What does Unfit apply to?

I'd guess that it applies to all of those. I would not apply it to FP spent to cast spells, but I would to everything else.
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Old 02-25-2017, 02:33 AM   #3
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Default Re: What does Unfit apply to?

I think it applies to hazards such as heat, sleep, etc. and performing extended tasks that consume FP, such as running. I would not apply it to anything that has an "FP Cost" such as Extra Effort. I would consider applying to to the end of long combats, just cause it fits thematically.
Basically I would ask myself "Would Fit give any benefit here?", if the answer is no, then Unfit also probably doesn't apply.
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Old 02-25-2017, 06:27 AM   #4
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Default Re: What does Unfit apply to?

Very Fit does not half your output for Extra Effort so Unfit should not double it.
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Old 02-25-2017, 06:29 AM   #5
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: What does Unfit apply to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edges View Post
The Unfit disadvantage says that you lose FP at twice the normal rate. What does this apply to?

Does it apply to Extra Effort? Does it matter if the Extra Effort is in or out of combat?
I would say it does apply to Extra Effort, though with a caveat - if an Extra Effort variant is ever developed that costs more than 1 FP to use, I'd still charge only a single extra FP if you use it and have Unfit. Paying 2 FP for Extra Effort if you have Unfit seems reasonable, since Extra Effort is voluntary - that's worth -5 points. Paying, say, 4 FP instead of 2 for "Hypothetical Very Fatiguing Extra Effort Option" seems a bit more punitive than -5 points deserves.

My logic for applying Unfit to Extra Effort is as follows:
First, it just makes sense - Unfit is about being physically out of condition. Extra Effort is pushing yourself beyond your normal physical boundaries. Unfit should make that harder.
Second, Kromm has clarified that the reverse trait, Fit, doesn't apply to Extra Effort, but only because a half-point of FP rounds up to 1. Unfit, however, doubles FP costs. You definitely can pay 2 FP!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edges
It says it applies to FP lost due to heat. Does this imply that it also applies to FP lost to other hazards like sleep debt, hunger, and thirst? Does it apply to the FP lost at the end of combat?
Yes to all of these, I'd say. Any loss of FP that could be characterized as "physical" would be validly affected by Unfit. The only real exceptions are FP spent on supernatural abilities like energy for spells, using psionic techniques, etc. And even in the case of powers, for some (like Biological), I'd probably impose the penalty for Unfit anyway, because they very physical anyway. That's kind of a limitation, but it would be more than countered, in my opinion, by allowing the converse traits, Fit/Very Fit, to benefit those power sources as well.
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Old 02-25-2017, 06:49 AM   #6
sir_pudding
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Default Re: What does Unfit apply to?

Cardiovascular fitness definitely affects stamina when say lifting, so it ought, realistically, to apply to Extra Effort.

I'm not sure it should apply to hazards, starvation, or missed sleep though.
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Old 02-25-2017, 06:54 AM   #7
Donny Brook
 
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Default Re: What does Unfit apply to?

If Unfit is going to be applied to Extra Effort, then on fairness and symmetry grounds the objection to half-point FP calculations on the advantage side should be dropped.
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Old 02-25-2017, 06:58 AM   #8
sir_pudding
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Default Re: What does Unfit apply to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
If Unfit is going to be applied to Extra Effort, then on fairness and symmetry grounds the objection to half-point FP calculations on the advantage side should be dropped.
I'd rather the game be playable than symmetric. If you want to ignore the normal rounding rules though, there's no reason why you shouldn't. It won't break anything.
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Old 02-25-2017, 09:36 AM   #9
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Default Re: What does Unfit apply to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
If Unfit is going to be applied to Extra Effort, then on fairness and symmetry grounds the objection to half-point FP calculations on the advantage side should be dropped.
I think it is important to note that not all things in GURPS are symmetrical--on purpose.
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Old 02-25-2017, 10:54 AM   #10
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Default Re: What does Unfit apply to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Cardiovascular fitness definitely affects stamina when say lifting, so it ought, realistically, to apply to Extra Effort.

I'm not sure it should apply to hazards, starvation, or missed sleep though.
There is definitely one hazard that unfit applies to, Heat Exhaustion, unfit people tire much quicker in the heat than others.
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