[Supers][Spaceships] I/C/D/M Scale and points

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by TJA

For 600 points, i can just get 600/5 = DR 120 or between 120 and 360 dice of damage!

.

Well obviously you are going to get "Can't/Won't Wear Armour". I'd suggest Semi-Ablative as well. And a Power Modifier although that'll reduce the cost of your innate attack as well. But even so it is not news that the armor to stop a given attack costs more than the attack does. No, you can't buy the maximum DR as a starting character with 6400 points. But that maximum isn't just for starting characters with 6400 points. It's for highly experienced player characters with generous point awards and the even more powerful opponents they face.

[TJA]

OK, i take it , that the point limit is only suggested for "starting" characters and that the scale limits (I/C/D/M) may be a more general applicability.

Right now, i am out of time, but will write again with a table that tries to unify the cost of those advantages.

I would like to hear comments on that ...
:)

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by TJA

OK, i take it , that the point limit is only suggested for "starting" characters and that the scale limits (I/C/D/M) may be a more general applicability.

Right now, i am out of time, but will write again with a table that tries to unify the cost of those advantages.

I would like to hear comments on that ...
:)

It's been suggested before to put everything on the same log scale that Super-Effort ST and Damage Reduction already use... a search for logarithmic might find some of those threads. Here's one - http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?p=824608

Basically, each 50 points spent on ST, DR, Innate Attack dice (you'd need to turn the types that don't cost 5 per die into enhancements/limitations), past level 20 bumps you up a level on the Speed/Range chart (30, 50, 70, 100, 150, 200, 300, rinse, repeat), with intermediate levels prorated.

So, 50 points bumps your ST 20 up to 30, or your DR 20 up to DR 30, or your 20d Burning or Crushing Attack up to 30d. And then it continues:

ST/DR/IA Cost
20 100
30 150
50 200
70 250
100 300
150 350
200 400
300 450
500 500
700 550
1000 600

This is the cost before any enhancements or limitations, of course, and you might want to look at whether enhancements like armor divisor are worth quite as much when you can multiply either raw damage or raw DR by a factor of ten with a flat 300 pt expenditure, but otherwise it should work fairly smoothly. It also completely replaces the Super-Effort rules for ST, of course.

And yes, I do include HP with the ST bought this way. It's the consolation for brick/tank types for the fact that the Innate Attack blasters still start off doing more damage for fewer points at the lower end of the scale.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

Basically, each 50 points spent on ST, DR, Innate Attack dice (you'd need to turn the types that don't cost 5 per die into enhancements/limitations)

Actually, you should probably turn everything into enhancements/limitations, or you run into the problem of 100d(10) costing more than 1,000d straight. If you make Innate Attack a 100 point power and set each step on the speed/range chart to +50% you'll wind up with more damage damage roughly balanced vs an advantage.

[TJA]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

a search for logarithmic might find some of those threads. Here's one - http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?p=824608

Have no more time to answer right now, but this topic is not new to me - i was discussing myself already :)

Super-Effort on Innate Attacks?!?
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...ht=logarithmic

New Modification / Advantage
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...ht=logarithmic

Has GURPS lost it's charm?
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...ht=logarithmic

Super ST in GURPS Super
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...ht=logarithmic

Immune / 1/2 damage from fire
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...ht=logarithmic

Damage Penetration, a new Limitation for Damage Resistance
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...ht=logarithmic

I am here since 2004 :D
And before of that, i hunted the GURPSnet Mailing List ...

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Actually, you should probably turn everything into enhancements/limitations, or you run into the problem of 100d(10) costing more than 1,000d straight. If you make Innate Attack a 100 point power and set each step on the speed/range chart to +50% you'll wind up with more damage damage roughly balanced vs an advantage.

I like the idea in general, and it's kind of neat how +300% for x10 damage dice balances out with +200% for Armor Divisor (10), but how do you do less than 20d as a limitation, then?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

I like the idea in general, and it's kind of neat how +300% for x10 damage dice balances out with +200% for Armor Divisor (10), but how do you do less than 20d as a limitation, then?

Call the 100p version the 'super-attack' power and let people buy normal IA below that?

Super-Attack: 100p
A super-powered Innate Attack. Does a base of 20d damage. Takes all IA modifiers, plus the following special modifiers:

• Burning: +0%
• Corrosive: +100% (has the useful side effect of making things like Corrosive Cutting viable)
• Crushing: +0%
• Cutting: +40%
• Fatigue: +100%
• Impaling: +60%
• Small Piercing: -40%
• Large Piercing: +20% (I'd probably change this to +30%)
• Huge Piercing: +60%
• Piercing: +0%
• Toxic: -20%
• Enhanced Damage: +50% per step on the range/speed chart, or +5% for +5% to damage.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Call the 100p version the 'super-attack' power and let people buy normal IA below that?

Not bad. Would you do Super-DR the same way, so that getting it Hardened or what have you isn't out of order with increasing the base value? That would seem to make sense....

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

Not bad. Would you do Super-DR the same way, so that getting it Hardened or what have you isn't out of order with increasing the base value? That would seem to make sense....

Probably, though it winds up not working as well, because you're more likely to take multiple DR layers than you are to take multiple attacks; if you have SDR, increased DR +300% (DR 200), Force Field +20%, Semi-Ablative -20% [400], and SDR, increased DR +200% (DR 100) [300], that DR 300 is worse in all ways than SDR, increased DR +550%(DR 1,500), Force Field +20% [670].

Stuff like that is why I prefer a scale advantage.

[Langy]

With such large modifiers, you really need to use multiplicative modifiers in order to get balanced point costs.