Dangers in a Post Apocalyptic World

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

Could we just try an aggressive pinniped or cetacean? Just because the ones we have now don't appear to predate humans, doesn't mean that we couldn't get one...

Aquatic animals mostly don't attack humans mostly because humans aren't in the water that often and don't especially look like something they recognize as food, not because they're terribly anti-attacking-humans (sharks are just too dumb to tell the difference). Those factors were equally present 30,000 years ago.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by lwcamp

10 to 20 minutes? Osmotic exchange across their gills is not their friend in fresh water.

A shame, but perhaps we could use them in a different way. Great whites are serious threats shortly after being deposited, but wait a little while and suddenly there's a fresh carcass just waiting to be harvested.

Originally Posted by Anthony

Aquatic animals mostly don't attack humans mostly because humans aren't in the water that often and don't especially look like something they recognize as food, not because they're terribly anti-attacking-humans (sharks are just too dumb to tell the difference). Those factors were equally present 30,000 years ago.

If the Dark Fog is able to twist the minds of humans in some manner, it could do so to other animals as well, driving them to attack and kill humans. A dolphin or walrus could be a threat to those directly in the water or in tiny boats (such as canoes, kayaks, and rafts), while an orca could capsize a larger boat to get to its chewy center. Alternatively, these could be threats of a different sort - a pod of orcas suddenly appearing in a moderate sized lake would probably destroy the lake's ecosystem in fairly short order.

[tshiggins]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

. . . no.

Darn

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

(Normally I reserve this for my players, but for you I'll make an exception.)

I consider myself honored. :)

[(E)]

Playing with the idea of the bends as a result of the dark fog.
The bends is the result of a too rapid change in pressure, now the conditions at a random point on the earth's surface at a random point in time in the past 30,000 years are going to be different.
- Different Atmospheric pressure could cause all kinds of weather events. 30 second tornados, freezing fogs etc.
- Different Oxygen and other compositions might cause breathing issues.
- the ground level may be different. Causing fall damage or even partially burying people. Fighting can be difficult if your buried waist deep in the soil.
- Other events like bush fires, ash clouds, tsunami, floods, high pollen levels could also occur.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Varyon

A little wikiwalking makes me realize Dark Fog is imminently suited to adding sharks into bodies of water that normally lack them (albeit not quite to the extent of a puddle shark). I wonder how long a great white could survive in fresh water... It's a shame about the 30,000 year cutoff, or it would have obviously already deposited plesiosaurs in Lake Champlain and Loch Ness.

Originally Posted by lwcamp

10 to 20 minutes? Osmotic exchange across their gills is not their friend in fresh water.

But bull sharks survive just fine in fresh water, and they are one of the top three sharks involved in shark attacks and fatalities on humans. Bull sharks are often found in warmer, slow moving waters with poor visibility, and can swim some distance up rivers such as the Mississippi, Nile, and a lot of the rivers in northern Australia. Unfortunately for this setting, in an ice age scenario the great lakes (even if not covered by glaciers), finger lakes, Hudson river, Erie canal, etc. would probably be too cold for bull sharks.

Luke

Originally Posted by The Colonel

Could we just try an aggressive pinniped or cetacean? Just because the ones we have now don't appear to predate humans, doesn't mean that we couldn't get one...

Originally Posted by Anthony

Aquatic animals mostly don't attack humans mostly because humans aren't in the water that often and don't especially look like something they recognize as food, not because they're terribly anti-attacking-humans (sharks are just too dumb to tell the difference). Those factors were equally present 30,000 years ago.

Originally Posted by Varyon

A shame, but perhaps we could use them in a different way. Great whites are serious threats shortly after being deposited, but wait a little while and suddenly there's a fresh carcass just waiting to be harvested.



If the Dark Fog is able to twist the minds of humans in some manner, it could do so to other animals as well, driving them to attack and kill humans. A dolphin or walrus could be a threat to those directly in the water or in tiny boats (such as canoes, kayaks, and rafts), while an orca could capsize a larger boat to get to its chewy center. Alternatively, these could be threats of a different sort - a pod of orcas suddenly appearing in a moderate sized lake would probably destroy the lake's ecosystem in fairly short order.

I hadn't considered water threats. Obviously there should be some. One of the supers used her powers at one point to clean up the pollution in the local area (this happened before the world went to crap and was a PR stunt). So the Hudson is actually really clear compared to what it is now.

Hmmm. Water threats. What's native to the East Coast that could survive in cold climates and be a credible threat to humans?

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by tshiggins

Darn

I consider myself honored. :)

T_T

Originally Posted by (E)

Playing with the idea of the bends as a result of the dark fog.
The bends is the result of a too rapid change in pressure, now the conditions at a random point on the earth's surface at a random point in time in the past 30,000 years are going to be different.
- Different Atmospheric pressure could cause all kinds of weather events. 30 second tornados, freezing fogs etc.
- Different Oxygen and other compositions might cause breathing issues.
- the ground level may be different. Causing fall damage or even partially burying people. Fighting can be difficult if your buried waist deep in the soil.
- Other events like bush fires, ash clouds, tsunami, floods, high pollen levels could also occur.

All great ideas. I'll have to add these to the chart I'm making.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Aquatic animals mostly don't attack humans mostly because humans aren't in the water that often and don't especially look like something they recognize as food, not because they're terribly anti-attacking-humans (sharks are just too dumb to tell the difference). Those factors were equally present 30,000 years ago.

The mackerel sharks (mako, great white, etc.) are fairly smart, and usually 'taste' unknown potential prey (such as humans) before attacking seriously. The problem is that is a large shark (and these are large species) 'tasting' something tends to leave large holes in it, and bleeding into the ocean while going into shock is a great way to get eaten by other, dumber (or hungrier), sharks even if the original attacker has decided you taste bad.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

Hmmm. Water threats. What's native to the East Coast that could survive in cold climates and be a credible threat to humans?

Northern fresh water doesn't have a lot other than the previously mentioned bull shark, unless you decide the cryptozoologists have a point about Nessie and other similar lake monsters (warm water, of course, gives you alligators).

[lwcamp]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

I hadn't considered water threats. Obviously there should be some. One of the supers used her powers at one point to clean up the pollution in the local area (this happened before the world went to crap and was a PR stunt). So the Hudson is actually really clear compared to what it is now.

Hmmm. Water threats. What's native to the East Coast that could survive in cold climates and be a credible threat to humans?

In the oceans, great whites and orcas. And some species of jellyfish. Porbeagle sharks will be around but don't usually attack people (although a bite from one of these would be dangerous). Greenland sharks might be dangerous - if they didn't mostly hang out an immense depths where there aren't any people. Any of the really big whales might be dangerous if you approach them, particularly mothers with calves. Seals and sea lions can be cranky or just dangerously playful (or horny - an aroused bull sea lion might try a forced amorous encounter with a person in or near the water). Occasionally sea lions have been known to jump out of the water and pull people off of docks. And then there was that time a sea lion slapped a kayaker in the face with an octopus.

In the rivers, the worst fauna you've got are snapping turtles and pikes. Or maybe an irate mink or otter. Crayfish might nip your toes, and giant water bugs can give a very painful bite.

Wetlands have swarms of mosquitoes, some of which might carry west Nile virus or other diseases.

But you don't need living things for water threats. Rip tides, rogue waves, spring floods, undertows, barely submerged rocks or snags, rapids, waterfalls, thin ice, and the like can lead to drowning or hypothermia; the exertion of dealing with swift currents can lead to dehydration, hunger, and exhaustion, which can not only be dangerous in their own right but can make it harder to deal with other problems that come up. Sun glare can impair vision, and can give you a double dose of UV to increase your sunburn. Swimming or paddling in the muggy, humid climate of New York in the summer can lead to heat exhaustion or heat stroke. In the winter, there's hypothermia of course, and getting caught in one of those lake-effect winter storms will make things all that more dangerous. And then of course you've got nor'easters and hurricanes. And summer thunderstorms - a lightning bolt striking the water is not friendly to anyone nearby. The undertows created by weirs can be particularly dangerous if you try to swim or take a small paddle craft near the base of the weir.

(As an avid kayaker and kayak waterfowl hunter and fisherman, I've experienced more than my share of these hazards - although with a pacific northwest spin rather than northeast. A couple times they were life threatening, but thankfully I'm still around to tell the tale.)

Luke

Edit - the northeast rivers have largely been controlled with dams. After an apocalypse, the dams will not be maintained. When one of these dams bursts, it could pose a significant hazard to anyone along the river including entire communities.

Edit edit - The massasauga is a small, timid, not terribly venomous rattlesnake, but it does primarily live in wetlands. Someone unfortunate enough to step on one, or unwise enough to try to capture or kill one, could end up with a hand or foot crippled for a week or so. It's not much compared to copperheads or timber rattlers, bit it is frequently found near water.

[lwcamp]

Originally Posted by (E)

Playing with the idea of the bends as a result of the dark fog.
The bends is the result of a too rapid change in pressure, now the conditions at a random point on the earth's surface at a random point in time in the past 30,000 years are going to be different.
- Different Atmospheric pressure could cause all kinds of weather events. 30 second tornados, freezing fogs etc.

Just to put some numbers to this, typical pressure differences between any two widely separated places on Earth's surface (or the same location, separated by more than a week's time or so) is on the order of several hundred Pa. This pressure difference over a fairly short distance will lead to hurricane-force winds.

The safe rate of decompression from saturation (and most people will be at saturation) is around 250 Pa/minute. If you decompress faster than this, you are at risk of getting the bends. Decompression sickness might be an issue if you are dumped from a high pressure system into a low pressure system with a transition taking on the order of a minute or less. Of course, in such a situation you are likely to be sucked into the low pressure system by the strong winds produced.

Luke