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Old 08-28-2014, 08:50 PM   #431
combatmedic
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Default Re: New Reality Seeds

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Originally Posted by Drifter View Post
Very nice, well thought out. You can drop players into any point on that timeline.

But you shouldn't have taken down the others, they were good resources too.
I may put them back up in a spoiler tag at some point, as early examples.

I saved the text. My decision to pull them down was meant to help repair the thread and move it forward, that's all.
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Old 08-29-2014, 06:26 AM   #432
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Default Re: New Reality Seeds

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One quibble. Minoans weren't Greek in culture or language. The Mycenaeans were.
Finally we can put to rest the argument on whether the murals of bull dancing acrobatics were literal depictions of actions or figurative artistic license.

Though as PC, I would refuse to call it anything but Phaistos I. ;)
You may freely quibble, this is a slightly silly parallel. Although the Minoan may have had a primitive form of printing.
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Old 08-29-2014, 12:53 PM   #433
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Default Re: New Reality Seeds

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You may freely quibble, this is a slightly silly parallel. Although the Minoan may have had a primitive form of printing.
Other than the one extremely anomalous disc, what examples do you mean?
Even that one was more of a crude hand stamped pressing than anything I would call printing press.

One of my vampire characters from back in the day was a Minoan potter, so my love blinded me to any silly aspects you put in.
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Old 08-30-2014, 02:59 PM   #434
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Other than the one extremely anomalous disc, what examples do you mean?
Even that one was more of a crude hand stamped pressing than anything I would call printing press.

One of my vampire characters from back in the day was a Minoan potter, so my love blinded me to any silly aspects you put in.
The theory about the disc is that it was used to print cloth. Some other artifacs are described as cloth printers as well. I'd have to look up the article.
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Old 08-30-2014, 03:07 PM   #435
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The theory about the disc is that it was used to print cloth. Some other artifacs are described as cloth printers as well. I'd have to look up the article.
It couldn't have been common if that's literally the only example we have with no writing of its use.
All we have is guesswork and interesting plausible ideas, not anything approaching theory in my opinion.

There will also always be skepticism about it authenticity until an unless further examples are unearthed.

But all that just makes the artifact more interesting in my book.
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Old 08-31-2014, 01:42 PM   #436
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Try this idea, Earthquakes in central Asia send the course of the River Oxus flowing west into the Caspian Sea. On the parallel...

Oxus-1 this happened around the year 3700BCE. Indian traders (who on Homeline had trading posts on the Oxus in 2300BCE) make contact with the ancient Mediterannian basin in about 2100BCE. Mycenean Culture was deeply influenced by Ancient Indian culture. After Alexander of Mecedonia conquered Persia, he followed the Oxus back to Bactria. The much stronger trading and road systems lead to a deeper penitration of India. Alexander still died young, but India was part of the same ecumen as Greece and Egypt. Ptolemy and Eumenes allies against their choice create a navy and froge sea links between Egypt and India.

The present year in this Q6 parallel is 943CE. Local dates vary...wildly. Trade contacts brought paper to the West within 50 years of it's invention in China. Literacy burgeoned and the scientific revolution and the printing press both show up around 300BCE. Technological progress has been slower than homeline and the needs of the Greeco-Perseo-Indo-Romano-Celtic fusion culture that formed are interestingly eccentric. The local Tech Level is somewhere around TL8, higher and lower in odd ways. Both Homeline and Centruum like to scavenge for useful tech on this world. Mind you, the locals violently discouage industrial espionage.

Homeline spiritual seekers find this world to be a treasure house of spiritual thrills. This gives the ICops fits because of the crazy risks the tourists take!
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Old 08-31-2014, 01:48 PM   #437
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Default Re: New Reality Seeds

Could anyone help with my TL 7 Mars colony idea?
I want the space race to keep going with Orion drives and get boots and an outpost on mars by 1979.

Maybe a Soviet successful moon landing/probes first could push America into pushing harder and longer to Mars.

I want it as realistic as possible physically if not necessarily politically.

Though avoiding the Viet Nam debacle somehow could free up a lot of resources, economically as well as cultural enthusiasm-wise.
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Old 08-31-2014, 02:06 PM   #438
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Default Re: New Reality Seeds

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Could anyone help with my TL 7 Mars colony idea?
I want the space race to keep going with Orion drives and get boots and an outpost on mars by 1979.

Maybe a Soviet successful moon landing/probes first could push America into pushing harder and longer to Mars.

I want it as realistic as possible physically if not necessarily politically.

Though avoiding the Viet Nam debacle somehow could free up a lot of resources, economically as well as cultural enthusiasm-wise.
If you want a mars colony before 2000AD then you need the following.

A) Russia stays in the game longer. (The key guy needs a longer life and better allies)

B) The political Left's disenchantment with technology needs to be reduced. (Wells and Rosa Luxumborg seem like the right folks to bring in to the mix. Extend her life by getting her out of Germany. Get Wells and later Orwell to America. Orwell's life could be extended with penicillan. A Wells, Luxumborg, Orwell trokia could reshape the non-Soviet left in a wholesome direction.)

C) Disrupt the careers of William Proxmire(he was bitterly antiSpace) and Howard Jarvis(tax revolts make space undoable because the costs get to much focus).
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Old 08-31-2014, 02:35 PM   #439
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Default Re: New Reality Seeds

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I want it as realistic as possible physically if not necessarily politically.
You need to have a different Partial Test Ban Treaty. That is difficult, because the right kinds of bombs for an Orion - minimum fissile content but very reliable detonation for a low yield - have a fair bit in common with the kind of bomb you'd want to have if you wanted tactical nuclear weapons in the hands of every major military unit.

So you need to avoid the nuclear arms race getting lively. Your best option for that is to have the Baruch Plan work in some form, although it's not clear that the nuclear technology necessary for an Orion would have been developed under those conditions.
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Old 08-31-2014, 05:16 PM   #440
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Default Re: New Reality Seeds

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Could anyone help with my TL 7 Mars colony idea?
I want the space race to keep going with Orion drives and get boots and an outpost on mars by 1979.

Maybe a Soviet successful moon landing/probes first could push America into pushing harder and longer to Mars.

I want it as realistic as possible physically if not necessarily politically.

Though avoiding the Viet Nam debacle somehow could free up a lot of resources, economically as well as cultural enthusiasm-wise.
Check out False Steps, a blog by Paul Drye. Hopefully it will be a book someday. It details the roads not taken in the early space race.

As Astromancer and johndallman point out, you need a slightly different history. A long commitment by a better equipped Soviet Union, and a lesser fear of nuclear war, are needed.

I'm of the school that believes the Space Race was all about showing the other guy you could launch the biggest warheards directly into the heart of his country with great accuracy. So you still need that aspect.

Say Edward Teller chokes on a chicken bone in 1942. Fermi has ideas about a fusion bomb, but with no competent supporter, the idea is left behind in the hard work just to make a fission bomb. Space Race/Arms Race go off as planned, but there is no hydrogen bomb program in the 50s, just refinements of fission weapons, especially as Oppenheimer was opposed to the H-bomb on technical and political grounds.

Fission bombs can still do a LOT of damage, but "end of the world" weapons don't appear. And it turns out the Soviet version was based on American designs (big surprise)- so in this timeline they don't have fusion weapons either.

The idea of fusion is still floating around, thanks to von Neumann, but its not put into practical use until the 70s with the Orion project.

How and why the Soviets, or even the Americans, have a more comprehensive space program doesn't seem to stem from this event, however. That seems like a different divergence point.
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