"Automatically defeated" question in Harry Potter Munchkin

[bort269]

At level 9 I fought a monster that is "automatically defeated by Cedric Diggory" (who I already had as my Ally).

Is the game over at that point if nobody plays a Wandering Monster on me or can they play Finite! (the card that says "your turn is over, skip to charity phase") ?

Similar question when fighting Griphook, because you can defeat him by just paying him 500 coins instead (and you get the level, not the treasures).

Thanks!

[Fufu]

To go from Level 9 to Level 10 (win condition), a player must kill a Monster, unless the card says otherwise. Kill means total strength/power of the player(s) in Combat, and defeat means anything other than a player(s) combine strength/power basically.

If the card had stated, "automatically killed by Cedric Diggory" then yes, you would go to Level 10 (win). However, defeat means you cannot gain the winning Level.

[Brf]

Important Note #1 in the FAQ states that cards that say they "Defeat" a monster are "killing" the monster, therefore can give you the winning level.

[bort269]

Originally Posted by Brf

Important Note #1 in the FAQ states that cards that say they "Defeat" a monster are "killing" the monster, therefore can give you the winning level.

Indeed, it clearly states:

"If a card says a monster is automatically defeated, this counts as a kill unless the card says otherwise."

My question is: can anyone play a card once that monster has been killed (other than a wandering monster) or not?

For example, the "Steal a level" card could be played after the monster is killed/defeated/etc. because it waits for you to go up to level 10.

[Brf]

When the player kills the monster, they instantly become level-10 and win. You cannot prevent that unless the card you play specifically says it can prevent someone from winning. The July 2018 update says that combat ends when the last monster is killed. This would prevent you from playing a Wandering Monster to prevent the win.

[bort269]

Originally Posted by Brf

When the player kills the monster, they instantly become level-10 and win. You cannot prevent that unless the card you play specifically says it can prevent someone from winning. The July 2018 update says that combat ends when the last monster is killed. This would prevent you from playing a Wandering Monster to prevent the win.

Thanks Brf!

So it seems like "Steal a level" is the only card that could prevent such a win... because even strong cards like Annihilation would no longer have any effect at that point.

[Brf]

I am pretty sure there are cards in the basic set that say they can prevent a win. Also, Annihilation can be used as an interrupt, but only immediately after the affected card is played. In this case, Annihilation could be used immediately after the door is kicked open, to annihilate the monster.

[bort269]

Originally Posted by Brf

I am pretty sure there are cards in the basic set that say they can prevent a win. Also, Annihilation can be used as an interrupt, but only immediately after the affected card is played. In this case, Annihilation could be used immediately after the door is kicked open, to annihilate the monster.

I guess that was my specific question.

Can someone play Finite! (the card says "your turn is over, skip to charity phase") immediately after the door is kicked open?
Or is that monster "immediately defeated" and therefore the fight is over?

[sain9510]

I don't want to spread misinformation on this so I am gonna tag @AndrewH on this to give the final answer.

But the way I've always played munchkin is that there is no stack like Magice the Gathering has. Which means once the door is kicked open you still have priority and therefore it's defeated before anything else can be played. But again I will leave Andrew to give the official ruling.

Originally Posted by bort269

I guess that was my specific question.

Can someone play Finite! (the card says "your turn is over, skip to charity phase") immediately after the door is kicked open?
Or is that monster "immediately defeated" and therefore the fight is over?

[Andrew Hackard]

If it were up to me, you could never autokill a monster for a winning level. However, I don't know if we've ruled on that for our own games (other than a couple of cards that were specifically called out because they were already a little broken before we updated the fules) and I don't know if we've discussed that specifically with the OP for their games, so . . . I'm not sure. If it were up to me, I'd nerf the autokill, but I think you'll have to ask the OP what their intent was.