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Old 02-10-2011, 05:39 PM   #31
sir_pudding
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Default Re: GURPS Tactical Shooting

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
If Fast-Draw (Ammo) is normally at -4 when drawing ammo with the off hand, it seems like this perk would be almost mandatory for anyone using the skill with modern magazine weapons.
Doesn't Assaulter basically cover everybody that does Tactical Reloads? Remember most realistic shooters are going to use a Ready maneuver for this.
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Old 02-10-2011, 05:43 PM   #32
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Default Re: GURPS Tactical Shooting

Fast-Draw (Ammo) covers every step of quick reloading. The roll speeds up the whole procedure, whether that's a few seconds with a removable magazine or a minute with a powder horn. It isn't really a task that's sensitive to handedness, as it involves both hands anyway. I'd say it's the mention under Fast-Draw itself that's somewhat redundant . . . but I suppose you could be forced to operate one-handed, have the right perk for that, and be using the wrong hand.
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Old 02-10-2011, 05:45 PM   #33
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Default Re: GURPS Tactical Shooting

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Fast-Draw (Ammo) covers every step of quick reloading. The roll speeds up the whole procedure, whether that's a few seconds with a removable magazine or a minute with a powder horn. It isn't really a task that's sensitive to handedness, as it involves both hands anyway. I'd say it's the mention under Fast-Draw itself that's somewhat redundant . . . but I suppose you could be forced to operate one-handed, have the right perk for that, and be using the wrong hand.
I trained with one handed Tactical Reloads in real-life.
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Old 02-10-2011, 06:06 PM   #34
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Default Re: GURPS Tactical Shooting

I really enjoyed the first quick reading, great work! :)
It's especially nice that there are a lot of statements about gunfights in different movies, too.
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Old 02-10-2011, 06:24 PM   #35
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Default Re: GURPS Tactical Shooting

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Doesn't Assaulter basically cover everybody that does Tactical Reloads? Remember most realistic shooters are going to use a Ready maneuver for this.
Most styles include Fast Draw (Ammo) as a core skill and offer the new Quick Reload perk.

I guess from Kromm's statement, off-handed Fast Draw (ammo) is probably rather rare (only applicable if you are reloading the gun entirely without the use of your primary hand). And possibly a little vague as to what exactly it does, since FD (ammo) is described case-by-case, and the One-Handed Drills multiplies time...
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Old 02-10-2011, 07:45 PM   #36
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Default Re: GURPS Tactical Shooting

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I really enjoyed the first quick reading, great work! :)
It's especially nice that there are a lot of statements about gunfights in different movies, too.
I held out for two hours before finally buying it. :(

Is there an SJGames Anonymous somewhere? ;)
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Old 02-10-2011, 08:03 PM   #37
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Default Re: GURPS Tactical Shooting

I just saw this video a few days ago and it is particularly relevant here, especially in noting the very blurry line between "realistic" and cinematic". I also recommend checking out Jerry Miculek as a great example of fast shooting and speedloading.

http://www.wimp.com/fastestgunman/

The first time I saw the video I thought it was fake until I saw the slo-mo at the end...
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Old 02-10-2011, 08:55 PM   #38
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Default Re: GURPS Tactical Shooting

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
I trained with one handed Tactical Reloads in real-life.
Same here.

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Most styles include Fast Draw (Ammo) as a core skill and offer the new Quick Reload perk.

I guess from Kromm's statement, off-handed Fast Draw (ammo) is probably rather rare (only applicable if you are reloading the gun entirely without the use of your primary hand). And possibly a little vague as to what exactly it does, since FD (ammo) is described case-by-case, and the One-Handed Drills multiplies time...
Problem is it isn't that rare. I trained to reload while keeping my right hand (strong side) on the M-16 pistol grip while using my left (weak side) to reload. The only thing my right hand did was hit the magazine release. And I'm a pogue.
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Old 02-10-2011, 09:03 PM   #39
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Default Re: GURPS Tactical Shooting

GURPS Basic Set serves all genres, and is somewhat biased towards fun cinematic-but-believable gaming.

So Fast-Draw(Ammo) is for everything...but TS has this one-handed fast draw thing. Contradiction! Heresy! Uselessness!

No...it's just that the generic FD is probably over-broad, and GMs might want to tone it down in the raw realism that would be a game featuring a lot of the rules in TS.

Did we "miss" this in the playtest? Dunno. But do remember that TS is an amplification for one specific "reality setting" of a GURPS game that features realistic gunplay. "Generic" and "Specific" being not-the-same, where the specific rule seems to contradict, correct, or modify, perhaps another way to get at this is "what should, in a realism-based setting, the generic FD skill give you such that a fairly realistic Perk makes sense?"
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Old 02-10-2011, 09:07 PM   #40
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Default Re: GURPS Tactical Shooting

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Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk View Post
Problem is it isn't that rare. I trained to reload while keeping my right hand (strong side) on the pistol grip while using my left (weak side) to reload. The only thing my right hand did was hit the magazine release. And I'm a pogue.
Yes, I'd rather assume that the normal way to reload quite a lot of firearms would involve keeping your right hand on the appropriate grip-ish parts.

I assume, therefore, since Kromm characterized specifically off-handed reloading as unusual, that gripping the firearm is considered to be part of the reloading process. Which rather makes sense.

Thus I suppose that you'd only suffer off-hand penalties if you had your primary hand tied behind your back/broken/cut off and were therefore reloading entirely without it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
GURPS Basic Set serves all genres, and is somewhat biased towards fun cinematic-but-believable gaming.

So Fast-Draw(Ammo) is for everything...but TS has this one-handed fast draw thing. Contradiction! Heresy! Uselessness!

No...it's just that the generic FD is probably over-broad, and GMs might want to tone it down in the raw realism that would be a game featuring a lot of the rules in TS.

Did we "miss" this in the playtest? Dunno. But do remember that TS is an amplification for one specific "reality setting" of a GURPS game that features realistic gunplay. "Generic" and "Specific" being not-the-same, where the specific rule seems to contradict, correct, or modify, perhaps another way to get at this is "what should, in a realism-based setting, the generic FD skill give you such that a fairly realistic Perk makes sense?"
This is not a Basic Set/TS conflict. It's (if we disregard Kromm's post) a possible TS/TS conflict, because it suggests a near-ubiquitous penalty to Fast Draw (ammo) while not including the perk that removes the penalty in multiple styles that would desperately need it.
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