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Old 11-22-2011, 05:55 PM   #1
sclose1970
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Default Effect of Wait in Melee Combat

Combat scenario:
Fighter A, who has a weapon with a reach of 2, takes a Wait maneuver, declaring that he will step back 1 hex and perform a Committed Attack if his opponent moves or steps within 1 hex range. Fighter B, his opponent, begins an Attack maneuver by stepping within 1 yard, triggering fighter A's Wait. Fighter A interrupts Fighter B's "turn". Fighter A steps back, and attacks as declared.

Question 1: Is Fighter B allowed to retreat, even though he already "stepped" forward as part of his Attack Maneuver, which has now been interrupted?

Question 2: Assuming that Fighter A's step backwards takes him out of reach of Fighter B's attack, does Fighter B still get his attack, or must he take a different Maneuver because his opponent is no longer within range of his weapon, or does he simply "miss" and lose his Attack and his turn?

Question 3: Had Fighter B gained a to-hit bonus from taking one or more Evaluate maneuvers in previous turns, and assuming he either loses his attack or must change his Maneuver as a result of Fighter A's Wait tactic, does Fighter B lose the bonus gained from Evaluate as well?

Thanks for your time.
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Old 11-22-2011, 06:17 PM   #2
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: Effect of Wait in Melee Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by sclose1970 View Post
Question 1: Is Fighter B allowed to retreat, even though he already "stepped" forward as part of his Attack Maneuver, which has now been interrupted?
Why not? Stepping forward has no effect on being allowed to retreat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sclose1970 View Post
Question 2: Assuming that Fighter A's step backwards takes him out of reach of Fighter B's attack, does Fighter B still get his attack, or must he take a different Maneuver because his opponent is no longer within range of his weapon, or does he simply "miss" and lose his Attack and his turn?
He certainly doesn't miss, but certainly A could prevent B from ever getting in reach if so inclined. By the book he's probably stuck with an Attack maneuver, and he's certainly stuck with whatever actions he'd taken up to the point when A's Wait triggered. Might be able to still get an attack in with Extra Effort, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sclose1970 View Post
Question 3: Had Fighter B gained a to-hit bonus from taking one or more Evaluate maneuvers in previous turns, and assuming he either loses his attack or must change his Maneuver as a result of Fighter A's Wait tactic, does Fighter B lose the bonus gained from Evaluate as well?
Unless he's allowed to change it to an Evaluate, I would think so. Accumulated benefit is lost when you take any other maneuver, yes?
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Old 11-23-2011, 02:01 AM   #3
supersaiyandoyle
 
Join Date: May 2011
Default Re: Effect of Wait in Melee Combat

The effect of evaluate immediately disperses if the evaluator fails to either

A. Attack the Target

OR

B. Evaluate the same target again

Also, if the target leaves the range of the target, then the evaluation is lost.
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Old 11-23-2011, 02:17 AM   #4
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: Effect of Wait in Melee Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by sclose1970 View Post
Combat scenario:

Fighter A, who has a weapon with a reach of 2, takes a Wait maneuver, declaring that he will step back 1 hex and perform a Committed Attack if his opponent moves or steps within 1 hex range. Fighter B, his opponent, begins an Attack maneuver by stepping within 1 yard, triggering fighter A's Wait. Fighter A interrupts Fighter B's "turn". Fighter A steps back, and attacks as declared.
Let's call "A" Arthur, and "B" Beowulf for this example. Arthur is armed with a two handed spear, while Beowulf is armed with shortsword and shield. Both have sufficient armor along the lines of leather jerkin (DR1), pants (no DR), boots (Dr 2), Leather Helm (DR 2), and in Beowulf's case, a medium shield (DB 2). Both have a movement of 4.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sclose1970 View Post

Question 1: Is Fighter B allowed to retreat, even though he already "stepped" forward as part of his Attack Maneuver, which has now been interrupted?
Per GURPS, you can always utilize a retreat as an option to a defense, providing that you haven't moved at sprint speeds the previous turn (GURPS CAMPAIGNS) or you haven't moved more than 1 hex forward in a charge (GURPS MARTIAL ARTS page 106 under dealing with charging foes). Also, to clarify, Arthur had chosen the wait manuever up until the time that Beowulf chose his attack manuver. Speficially ATTACK and not MOVE AND ATTACK. ATTACK permits one to step and attack, or attack and step. MOVE AND ATTACK on the other hand, permits one to move up to full movement and attack at the end of full movement. GURPS MARTIAL ARTS even has a segment where one can have one's movement interrupted by a wait, then continue one's movement and finish the attack portion of the MOVE AND ATTACK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sclose1970 View Post

Question 2: Assuming that Fighter A's step backwards takes him out of reach of Fighter B's attack, does Fighter B still get his attack, or must he take a different Maneuver because his opponent is no longer within range of his weapon, or does he simply "miss" and lose his Attack and his turn?
Because Arthur retreated out of Beowulf's reach, Beowulf can no longer continue his ATTACK, as he has already utilized the step portion of the ATTACK manuever. By that definition, yes, Arthur's retreat as part of Beowulf's Attack, has caused Beowult to lose his attack due to reach issues.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sclose1970 View Post

Question 3: Had Fighter B gained a to-hit bonus from taking one or more Evaluate maneuvers in previous turns, and assuming he either loses his attack or must change his Maneuver as a result of Fighter A's Wait tactic, does Fighter B lose the bonus gained from Evaluate as well?

Thanks for your time.
"An Evaluate maneuver gives you +1 to skill for the purpose of an Attack,
Feint, All-Out Attack, or Move and Attack made against that opponent, on
your next turn only."


With regards to EVALUATE as a manuever, you may only have a maximum bonus of +3, which means that you can choose to have consecutive evaluates, but once +3 is reached, it will no longer increment by +1. Note too, that once you've decided to attack, feint, all-out-attack, or move and attack - you must use the bonus by the end of the next turn after Evalute is chosen, or you lose the built up bonus. So, to answer your question: Once you've chosen to attack, whether you attack or not successfully after you've built up your Evaluate bonuses - it is lost.

Where Beowulf my character in those circumstances outlined above, I'd be adapting my tactics to that of Arthur's tactics. Since he's clearly faster than Beowulf, and can always choose to be waiting for Beowulf's attacks, that limits Beowulf's options somewhat. First - Arthur is vulnerable to shield bash attempts. Second - there are always options available, even if you're not using GURPS MARTIAL ARTS.

For instance, is FEVERISH DEFENSE an option? If so, it grants a +2 defensive bonus at the expense of 1 fatigue. If not, then assuming Beowulf has a skill 12 with his shield, and he's using a medium shield, his block against an attack is equal to 3 + skill/2 (12/2) + DB(2) for a final block roll of 11 or less. Retreating only makes it worse for Beowulf in retreating puts Arthur further out of reach from his attacks.

In the end, were Beowulf my character, and I had the ability to utilize 3 consecutive Evaluates against Arthur before I go in, I'd use the following tactics against Arthur:

Shield Rush - it doesn't much matter if my movement is interrupted, providing I don't dodge back to avoid the attack.

Grappling - if I were to sheath my sword (counter intuitive no?), I could have a free hand to grab Arthur's spear shaft in a grapple attempt - at -4 to my grappling skill. If I'm successful in grappling the spear shaft, I'm looking at a contest of strength to rip it out of his hand. I still have a shield in my hand that I can use to smash at Arthur where needed.

Disarming attacks: My disarm attempts would be at skill-5 to strike his spear, but on the turn immediately after he uses it to strike at me, I can strike at his weapon shaft, and attempt to disarm him. If I succeed in hitting, it unreadies his weapon for three turns, and if I succeed in the contest of weapon skills, could even disarm him instead. When all else fails? I can always look on the ground for a rock or two, and start hurling them at him - making him come in closer to me and attacking, instead of "waiting" for me to get within reach and then stepping back and intterupting my attack. Me? When I have a character in a fight, I don't just stand there toe to toe and slugging it out. If something doesn't look like it is working, I start looking for alternatives. Heck, even having a dagger at my belt and using it to throw at Arthur's leg would possibly be worth considering if I can get close enough and all Arthur is doing is waiting.

One last thought and I'll bring this to a close...

Imagine having an NPC fighter or a player character fighter who has concentrated on having a decent shield skill. My favorite is having a shield skill of 16 with a feint of 18. Using the shield's rim against a foe's face can be a really nasty surprise. What makes this even nicer from my perspective is the fact that with a skill of 18 in feint, he becomes that much harder to feint out as well. A 16 skill with a medium shield grants a block value of 13, which isn't all too shabby in combat. Of course, combat reflexes can bump that up to a 14, but you get the idea.
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Old 11-23-2011, 02:45 AM   #5
Phoenix_Dragon
 
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Default Re: Effect of Wait in Melee Combat

Done strictly by the normal interpretation of the RAW, you can get some odd results with Wait, such as making a lance charge on an enemy who completely avoids it (Without even the need for a roll) simply by waiting to Attack the moment you move into lance range, and using the step to move inside your reach. No skill or roll needed.

As a result, I would treat changes in distance from a Wait the same as I would for a retreat. With a retreat, even if it moves you out of the opponent's reach, they still get to continue their attack, as well as any further attacks they could make that turn. I would personally give the same effect for turns interrupted by a Wait. This keeps someone from getting situational auto-success dodges, a maneuver that could be done even by a half-blind drunk with extra-heavy encumbrance without any chance of failure, and with no way for the attacker to counter the tactic.
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:03 AM   #6
Dustin
 
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Default Re: Effect of Wait in Melee Combat

One option is to attack A's weapon, which is still within range even if A is not. I personally would allow B to change his Attack into a Committed Attack (MA p.99) for the extra step, but that's arguably not RAW.
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