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Old 06-17-2009, 07:55 AM   #51
Not another shrubbery
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Attribute Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz
HT I never had to limit as players rarely take it very high. But I would encourage players to take Fit and/or Hard to kill/subdue instead. This is purely so that as a GM have a chance to effect them with HT-afflitions.
A reasonable ruling if you want to keep HT normalized and still go by the book. I’ve tinkered with the idea of eliminating the Fit trait, shoehorning the effects into the HT attribute, but I’ve never tried to use it in a game.
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Old 06-17-2009, 10:09 AM   #52
Xplo
 
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Default Re: Attribute Limits

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Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen View Post
A better way to simulate biological differences, e.g. between different species or between different sexes, is to alter the cost of attributes, e.g. by making Elves pay only 19 CPs per level for DX, but 11 CPs per level for ST.
Uh, no. The best way to simulate biological differences in GURPS is to create characters that reflect those differences. Charging people different costs for the same trait is silly, and there's nothing wrong with directing players to create characters in ways that the system doesn't mechanically encourage.
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:05 PM   #53
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Default Re: Attribute Limits

I'll just use the old 3rd ed cost table, doubling it for IQ and DX, so if you want to deviate a lot from the media, you pay a bit more. And for stat based defaults, never mind how high was you stat, it counts just as a 15 at most. 15 gives you a default for easy abilities of 11. No points expended, no professional level, sorry.
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Old 09-07-2009, 11:07 PM   #54
Kyle Aaron
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Default Re: Attribute Limits

It's best to control attributes, high skills and so on indirectly through CP total. If you say "you can only have up to skill 18" or "only up to IQ 14" you get endless arguments. If you say, "you have 100CP to spend, and can take up to 50CP in Disadvantages", most people don't argue. And the result is that almost nobody will have those really high attributes and skills anyway.

I had one player who gimped ST, DX and HT down to 8 to get extra CP for IQ 14. But couldn't be bothered reading the rules so didn't make use of all the great defaults IQ 14 got the character... and sometimes ran into combat, and never enjoyed the cross-country hikes the party went on.

Apart from that one player, nobody else has gone for high stats in low CP campaigns I've run or been in.

But if you have 250+CP campaigns, and magical ones to boot, they're unrealistic characters to begin with, so what if they have DX 18 or something as well?
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Old 09-08-2009, 12:37 AM   #55
Amra
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Default Re: Attribute Limits

Just using CP doesn't work for me at all. I've created 250 CP magical characters that are still, "gritty and realistic". An 18 dex? Doesn't work for me.

It doesn't matter to me that the character is "balanced" in system because he will be hosed in other areas, an 18 dex PC is just unbelievable in what I imagine a realistic game to be.

As a GM, and player (although I'm never a player), I want ranges for attributes and skills defined so I can get a feel for the world. MA's guidelines for attributes works for me. Skills capped at Attribute +5 (or +10) works too.

The +/- 30% rule works pretty well too, maybe giving a little more leeway for ST and HT.

99.9% of the time there's no way I'm just going to give a CP amount and say "spend them anywhere". This is just my preference of course, doesn't mean I think it's the "right way".
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Old 09-08-2009, 02:43 AM   #56
The Benj
 
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Default Re: Attribute Limits

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Originally Posted by bolondro2 View Post
I'll just use the old 3rd ed cost table, doubling it for IQ and DX, so if you want to deviate a lot from the media, you pay a bit more. And for stat based defaults, never mind how high was you stat, it counts just as a 15 at most. 15 gives you a default for easy abilities of 11. No points expended, no professional level, sorry.
So changing the Rule of 20 into the Rule of 15. Sounds fine for a gritty game.
Then again, in a gritty game I wouldn't be allowing people to have attributes above 15, but hey.
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Old 09-08-2009, 08:15 AM   #57
bolondro2
 
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Default Re: Attribute Limits

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So changing the Rule of 20 into the Rule of 15. Sounds fine for a gritty game.
Then again, in a gritty game I wouldn't be allowing people to have attributes above 15, but hey.
Sorry, but what means 'a gritty game'?

You know, I'm not a english native speaker and the meaning of the expression is obscure to me. And the dictionary don't help in this case
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Old 09-08-2009, 09:33 AM   #58
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Default Re: Attribute Limits

I know a lot has been said already, and lot of really good stuff, but just as a point of simplicity from my experience, I'd skip the percentages and use static integer values. So instead of saying +/-30%, just say +/- 3. It won't make too much difference really, and the benefit is not having to deal with math... which a complaint I get from the people I run games for. No one wants to do math. And really, in the ranges you seem to be looking for, depending on how you round 30%, it'll come to about 3 anyway.

And I have to admit I've had players who go for the "one trick pony" path too. It's pretty frustrating as a GM when one player pours all their points into a combat skill and then just ALWAYS aims for the eye to get the brain shot and lots of extra damage. Then the other players catch on and do pretty much the same thing.

But then, I sent out a document with my character creation guide for a new campaign recently and got a really negative reaction from one of my players. I had trimmed out a bunch of advantages and disadvantages mostly because they didn't fit the campaign, and in some cases because I didn't want to deal with them as a GM. Klutz is the best example I disallowed. I tried running that disadvantage before and it's a huge friggin pain to have normal failures be counted as critical failures all the time. I either ignored it to keep the game rolling, or got bogged down in critical fail rolls and results. Anyway... not the point... the point is that I limited it figuring it would help the game along, and the player who had taken that disadvantage complained loudly that I was telling him how to spend his points and limiting him too much...

From that I take away that players want to be able to make characters that are way off the average in many ways... which I guess makes them more fun to play. So a strong part of me wants to keep those limits, but I can sort of see how players might rankle at them with good reason. It is supposed to be a game right? People are supposed to have fun doing things that are outside the norm.

I wonder if there's a happy medium.
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Old 09-08-2009, 10:37 AM   #59
Flyndaran
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Default Re: Attribute Limits

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Originally Posted by The Benj View Post
So changing the Rule of 20 into the Rule of 15. Sounds fine for a gritty game.
Then again, in a gritty game I wouldn't be allowing people to have attributes above 15, but hey.
What if I wanted to play a strong man competition guy with lifting strength up to 18 total? They exist, and it would be fun to play a guy not really built for modern horror or gritty noir. You can't punch Cthulu or even bullets.
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Old 09-09-2009, 02:05 AM   #60
The Benj
 
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Default Re: Attribute Limits

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Originally Posted by bolondro2 View Post
Sorry, but what means 'a gritty game'?

You know, I'm not a english native speaker and the meaning of the expression is obscure to me. And the dictionary don't help in this case
It's a bit of a vague term, in some ways. I use it to mean something vaguely similar to "realistic", but more in terms of brutality and harshness than ruling out the supernatural or fantastic.
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