A Quick Question about Reliable

[AlexanderHowl]

I was just curious if the Reliable Enhancement could be used to enhance the accuracy of Innate Attacks with the Melee Limitation? In Powers (p. 109), it says that ranged attacks use the Accuracy Enhancement instead of the Reliable Enhancement, but it says nothing about melee attacks. It also says that the Reliable Enhancement is treated as Talent on the same page and, under the Powering Up section of Innate Attacks (p. 55 of Powers), it says that Talent gives a bonus to hit. In Characters (p. 112), it also states that melee attacks lack Accuracy, so they could not benefit from the Accuracy Enhancement. So, could an Innate Attack with the Melee Limitation receive the Reliable Enhancement to give a bonus to hit?

[Refplace]

No, ACC is a trait possessed by ranged weapons so that enhancement helps them be competitive.

[AlexanderHowl]

Originally Posted by Refplace

No, ACC is a trait possessed by ranged weapons so that enhancement helps them be competitive.

Could you give a reference that forbids Reliable for melee Innate Attacks?

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I was just curious if the Reliable Enhancement could be used to enhance the accuracy of Innate Attacks with the Melee Limitation?

The wording is fairly sloppy (really it should probably never have been generalized from the few advantages it was a special enhancement for, I think it's originally for Jumper, which is why it's such a *small* percentage, Jumper is expensive), but I doubt many competent GMs will let you get away with using it to add to a skill roll of any sort regardless of the wording, let alone one on something as potentially low cost as an Innate Attack. It's quite clearly not the intent of the enhancement, which is to add to attribute rolls unique to the advantage.

As is so often the case, these rules were not written for rules lawyers, but if you need a defense against one *all* Modifiers are explicitly called out as subject to GM vetting for ridiculous combinations or abuses right where they are introduced (last paragraph of B 101).

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by malloyd

if you need a defense against one *all* Modifiers are explicitly called out as subject to GM vetting for ridiculous combinations or abuses

Also the "keep an eye out for these" Caution rating in PU4/8. Reliable gets a 3+ out of 4 eyes on the table on PU4 p 23, putting it between "may cause significant problems on its own" and "may break the game".

get away with using it to add to a skill roll of any sort regardless of the wording, let alone one on something as potentially low cost as an Innate Attack

If the problem is seen just on low-cost abilities, then one fix might be to take the description that Reliable "works just like a power Talent" literally, and impose a minimum cost of 5 CP / level on it, regardless of the cost of the ability. That's the effective cost for its original appearance for Warp and Jumper, and the minimum cost of a Talent. That would of course make Reliable even more expensive than just dropping 4 points into an Innate Attack skill, so players would just bump the skill instead in all the cheap cases, and Reliable would only get used for abilities not governed by "Skills For Everyone", explicit skills like IA, or having multiple skills. So 4 CP might be a better minimum.

[Ashtagon]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I was just curious if the Reliable Enhancement could be used to enhance the accuracy of Innate Attacks with the Melee Limitation? In Powers (p. 109), it says that ranged attacks use the Accuracy Enhancement instead of the Reliable Enhancement, but it says nothing about melee attacks. It also says that the Reliable Enhancement is treated as Talent on the same page and, under the Powering Up section of Innate Attacks (p. 55 of Powers), it says that Talent gives a bonus to hit. In Characters (p. 112), it also states that melee attacks lack Accuracy, so they could not benefit from the Accuracy Enhancement. So, could an Innate Attack with the Melee Limitation receive the Reliable Enhancement to give a bonus to hit?

In the case of guns, Reliable/Accurate means in real-world terms the barrel is of an unusually high quality such that the bullets deviate from their course less than for typical guns. What's the real-world explanation for what is happening to make a Reliable/Accurate melee weapon?

[AlexanderHowl]

Good balance? Just like with the Balance Quality of normal weapons?

[Nereidalbel]

Going by the RAW? Reliable is only forbidden to ranged attacks. Since it can be used to offset the common penalties of Rapid Strike and Deceptive Attack, it does seem to fit the intended purpose of the enhancement, as well.

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by Refplace

No, ACC is a trait possessed by ranged weapons so that enhancement helps them be competitive.

I know that's the RAW answer, but the two really do different things.

Accuracy gives a +1 after a turn of aiming, but doesn't have a maximum cap.

Reliable gives a +1 like a talent, but caps at 10.

Personally, I have no problem adding Reliable to Melee Attacks (or, at +10%, Ranged Attacks to reflect inherently accurate attacks when "no die roll required" doesn't feel appropriate). I would also allow Accuracy on a Melee attack, to give its bonus after an evaluate maneuver.

And, yes, Reliable is a good way of breaking some powers to be too powerful. But, from the same angle, it's also a good way of emulating some abilities that you see in fiction that just work until the plot demands it doesn't.