Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-06-2017, 12:01 PM   #121
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
http://www.chuckhawks.com/motorcycle_firearms.htm

I found that interesting on motorcycles and guns
Yeah, actually firing from a moving motorcycle is a pretty challenging proposition.

Note that a PDW like the H&K MP7A1 in .4.6x30mm would in many ways be ideal for that specific situation. And Agent Rubio has already obtained one of those for herself through the DEVGRU team assigned as security and extraction element.* Agent O'Toole might be able to do the same.

Of course, the MP7 has the disadvantage that any ballistics investigation will reveal the presence of a group with access to the newest and most modern military weapons, but the SEALs figure that if they ever fire their weapons, the operation will be aborted anyway and saving their lives and those of the agents trumps maintaining perfect secrecy.

*She'll smuggle it across the border herself, in a secret compartment in the truck she's driving. If it's found by the US Border Patrol, she plans to show her ID. Mexican border security shouldn't search her truck, as she isn't going out of the 20km wide zona frontera.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2017, 12:16 PM   #122
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Then he'll need a cannon and a concealed holdout.
It looks like Agent O'Toole will retain his CBP-issue H&K P2000 SK as a concealed weapon. If anyone stops him at the border, he has identification as a federal agent and superiors to back up his story of an undercover operation in Mexico. He'd prefer not to reveal this to the Border Patrol, but the odds of him being strip searched while crossing into Mexico are pretty low anyway.

Whether he'll also want to carry a Beretta 92FS or the functionally equivalent Taurus PT92 is an open question. He might also want a longarm, at least if he listens to Taylor, as those are much more effective than any kind of handgun if it should come to a firefight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
So is he a Snap-On man? That's a big thing in the south, either he loves or hates Snap-On. It's just a thing with with good ole boys (and if he hates Snap-On, then he's Sears loyal and and is likely sad to see the "institution" go, "This [tool] was my Dad's, my grand-dad's, and my great-grand-dad's, an Sears always done right by 'em. Don't make tools like they used to").
That's a good question. Let's go with Sears, which his gramps (Grandpa Chancellor) prefered, rather than Snap-On.

On one of the occasions where Cory Earl Taylor had a legitimate job for more than a year, he worked in the Pepsi bottling plant in Luverne. I don't know what tools they'd use there, but let's say that Cory Earl had a set of Snap-Ons.

Taylor can maintain a pick-up truck (skill 11) and is actually pretty decent as a motorcycle mechanic (skill 12), but he's no custom car detailer or professional-quality restorer. Actually, the tools he's most used to handling are those you'd find in the armoury of a US military base.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
I don't know guns, so I'm not really capable of commenting on what pieces they should carry.
Well, I know what would be practical, I was just looking for views on what seemed in character.

Note that because of his superpowers, and unlike a normal human, Taylor can actually shoot accurately under combat conditions up to the mechanical accuracy of assault rifles (and better). So there is a case to be made that using a high-quality accurised battle rifle or recce carbine with match ammunition makes some sense for him.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2017, 01:15 PM   #123
evileeyore
Banned
 
evileeyore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
That's a good question. Let's go with Sears, which his gramps (Grandpa Chancellor) prefered, rather than Snap-On.
Good call. If his grandpa liked Sears, and his Dad liked Snap-On, that would also set his preferences.

Quote:
On one of the occasions where Cory Earl Taylor had a legitimate job for more than a year, he worked in the Pepsi bottling plant in Luverne. I don't know what tools they'd use there, but let's say that Cory Earl had a set of Snap-Ons.
"Professional" repair men 'prefer' Snap=On, they're more expensive, but the sales-men often give good deals to bulk orders bought at job sites, so a group of guys often pool orders and get "all the tools they'll ever need" at once. Which is bogus, as most of them will replace tools here and there in bit rate over time at a greater mark-up, usually spending far more piecemeal (over the life time of their profession) than they would had they gone with a less expensive (less "name worthy") tool dealer.

The real convenience is that Snap-On sales-men create a relationship with the business (and individuals) they sell to, will make rounds (visiting those businesses every month to take orders), and sometimes hand deliver high value tools. They are also well informed and knowledgeable about their tools and will sometimes (but very rarely) refer a client to another tool distributor if they carry a specific tool Snap-On doesn't carry.

However... quality wise, Snap-On tools are no better than most others. Just waaaaaay more expensive.
evileeyore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2017, 03:58 PM   #124
johndallman
Night Watchman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
[O'Toole] might also want a longarm, at least if he listens to Taylor, as those are much more effective than any kind of handgun if it should come to a firefight.
Has he actually bought some skill in that now? I presume the PCs got a reasonable amount of experience for the first scenario.
Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
However... quality wise, Snap-On tools are no better than most others. Just waaaaaay more expensive.
In GURPS terms, good tools (baseline quality) at Fine prices?
johndallman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2017, 04:26 PM   #125
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Has he actually bought some skill in that now? I presume the PCs got a reasonable amount of experience for the first scenario.
O'Toole has not improved his Guns skills. He has a point in (Pistol) and a Dabbler Perk from his long ago basic training which includes (Longarm).

There was little justification for improving his shooting skills, he actually made zero ranged attacks during the adventure. He pulled the trigger of his pistol several times, but only to make noise and/or out of panic. He never aimed or even pointed a gun at a person during the entire adventure.

He did improve his Tactics (Police) from a Dabbler default to the 1 point level and improved his Professional Skill (Law Enforcement) skill. Technically, he is now fully capable as a field agent.

Most of his points, however, went on more telekinetic powers. He also added a technique to Administration specifically to appear busy, productive and professional to his superiors and took some Perks related to optimal brown-nosing within a bureaucratic organisation.

Agent O'Toole may not have impressed anyone with his performance under pressure, but his permanent record will have all the right CYOA memos and any higher-ups passing through will see him in the best possible light, furiously shuffling paper, mouthing platitudes and accomplishing make-work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Good call. If his grandpa liked Sears, and his Dad liked Snap-On, that would also set his preferences.

"Professional" repair men 'prefer' Snap=On, they're more expensive, but the sales-men often give good deals to bulk orders bought at job sites, so a group of guys often pool orders and get "all the tools they'll ever need" at once. Which is bogus, as most of them will replace tools here and there in bit rate over time at a greater mark-up, usually spending far more piecemeal (over the life time of their profession) than they would had they gone with a less expensive (less "name worthy") tool dealer.

The real convenience is that Snap-On sales-men create a relationship with the business (and individuals) they sell to, will make rounds (visiting those businesses every month to take orders), and sometimes hand deliver high value tools. They are also well informed and knowledgeable about their tools and will sometimes (but very rarely) refer a client to another tool distributor if they carry a specific tool Snap-On doesn't carry.

However... quality wise, Snap-On tools are no better than most others. Just waaaaaay more expensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
In GURPS terms, good tools (baseline quality) at Fine prices?
It's interesting that we should be discussing tools, as the PCs really ought to buy enough of them to count as at least a basic toolkit for Mechanic (Automobile), Mechanic (Motorcycle) and Armoury (Smallarms). Keep them all in the truck.

As a layman, it seems that a toolkit that can handle maintaining and repairing any model of car really ought to contain most of what you'd need for keeping a motorcycle running. Maybe there are a couple of specialised widgets needed, but it seems like 80-90% of the wrenches, spanners and all the other hand tools would be the same.

Even using the rules for Combination Gadgets and adding +50% Cost and Weight to the basic Mechanic toolkit feels excessive. I'd be inclined to add +20%, by analogy from Alternate Abilities. Or am I maybe way off and motorcycles require a range of specialised tools?

Screwdrivers and suchlike might be common with an Armoury (Smallarms) toolkit, but there I feel much more comfortable using Combination Gadgets.

In real world terms, we'd have access to an Army and Air Force Exchange, a Sears, a Walmart, a Target and a Kmart within a short drive. Probably other stores, if we went to the Cielo Vista mall, ca 15 minutes.

Any suggestions on what tools to get and what they amount to in GURPS terms?
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

Last edited by Icelander; 06-06-2017 at 09:08 PM.
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2017, 06:01 AM   #126
weby
 
weby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
As a layman, it seems that a toolkit that can handle maintaining and repairing any model of car really ought to contain most of what you'd need for keeping a motorcycle running. Maybe there are a couple of specialised widgets needed, but it seems like 80-90% of the wrenches, spanners and all the other hand tools would be the same.

Even using the rules for Combination Gadgets and adding +50% Cost and Weight to the basic Mechanic toolkit feels excessive. I'd be inclined to add +20%, by analogy from Alternate Abilities. Or am I maybe way off and motorcycles require a range of specialised tools?
I use the same tools for both, though I do have a lifting stand for the motorcycle as special equipment but it is definitely not basic equipment.
__________________
--
GURPS spaceship unofficial errata and thoughts: https://gsuc.roto.nu/
weby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2017, 08:07 AM   #127
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by weby View Post
I use the same tools for both, though I do have a lifting stand for the motorcycle as special equipment but it is definitely not basic equipment.
In real world terms, if one had to get enough tools to count as basic equipment for Mechanic for a pick-up truck, two Harleys, a couple of dirt bikes (or dual purpose bikes) and a Moto racer, what would one get?

How much would it cost, what tools, roughly, would be included, and how much would it weight?

If you can mention some real world kits or combinations of tool sets that would cover all of the above and are available in the Army and Air Force Exchange at Fort Bliss or the closest shops, such as a Sears, a Walmart, a Target or a Kmart in El Paso, that would be beyond wonderful.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2017, 08:50 AM   #128
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
In real world terms, if one had to get enough tools to count as basic equipment for Mechanic for a pick-up truck, two Harleys, a couple of dirt bikes (or dual purpose bikes) and a Moto racer, what would one get?

How much would it cost, what tools, roughly, would be included, and how much would it weight?

If you can mention some real world kits or combinations of tool sets that would cover all of the above and are available in the Army and Air Force Exchange at Fort Bliss or the closest shops, such as a Sears, a Walmart, a Target or a Kmart in El Paso, that would be beyond wonderful.
Basic equipment probably corresponds to a tool kit in the $20 to $40 range like this one.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2017, 01:20 PM   #129
evileeyore
Banned
 
evileeyore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
In GURPS terms, good tools (baseline quality) at Fine prices?
Yes. They are Good quality, but with inflated prices (maybe not quite x20. I'd tag them at x5 to x10, with electronics and some specialty tools at x20).

Using Low-Tech I'd call Snap-On tools:

Good Quality (+4), Expensive (+1), Rugged (+1), Styled [+2] (+4), for a total CF of +10.

At Workshop size (fully Snap-On supplied), I'd reduce "needs highly specialized tool" penalties by 2 and charge a full 15 CF.

Because you really do have every tool for the job (and those specialized tools are really, really, really over-the-top expensive).


Side digression:
Am I the only person who thinks there needs to be a Portable Workshop level of toolkit?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
He also added a technique to Administration specifically to appear busy, productive and professional to his superiors and took some Perks related to optimal brown-nosing within a bureaucratic organisation.

Agent O'Toole may not have impressed anyone with his performance under pressure, but his permanent record will have all the right CYOA memos and any higher-ups passing through will see him in the best possible light, furiously shuffling paper, mouthing platitudes and accomplishing make-work.
So even the Player acknowledges that O'Toole is a tool. I can respect that.

Quote:
It's interesting that we should be discussing tools, as the PCs really ought to buy enough of them to count as at least a basic toolkit for Mechanic (Automobile), Mechanic (Motorcycle) and Armoury (Smallarms). Keep them all in the truck.
As weby notes, aside from edge case tools (Workshop level) this is the same toolkit.

Keep in mind, the Mechanic specialties are Motive System (Wheeled), Powerplant (Gasoline Engine), and Vehicle Type (Automotive) or (Motorcycle).

Mechanic (Vehicle Type) says: The controls, hull, motive system, power plant, transmission, and even the paint job of one specific type of vehicle listed under a vehicle-operation skill...

So, I'd allow an Automotive toolkit to effect repairs on any other vehicle that had the same systems at no further penalty. So the only differences in this case (Auto versus Cycle) are Controls (a big difference), Transmission (possibly), and Body (cosmetic).

Portable toolkits are going to be useless for repairing Body Damage, so unless the Controls take damage, or the Auto and Cycle have different transmissions (automatic versus manual), a potable toolkit should suffice.

If the Party is really worried and the GM is nit-picky, I'd allow them to "pick up the extra tools" for half the price (and half the size) of a full kit to cover a second related specialty (in this case making a toolkit that covers both Automotive and Motorcycle specializes) and treat them as a singular "gadget".

Quote:
As a layman, it seems that a toolkit that can handle maintaining and repairing any model of car really ought to contain most of what you'd need for keeping a motorcycle running. Maybe there are a couple of specialised widgets needed, but it seems like 80-90% of the wrenches, spanners and all the other hand tools would be the same.
This is true. But also, for the most part, the Mechanic specialties overlap.

Quote:
Or am I maybe way off and motorcycles require a range of specialised tools?
They don't... but... eh. See above "worried and nit-picky" line. The difference between toolsets are below the resolution for GURPS in my opinion (at Mini and Portable levels anyway, there are a few differences at the Workshop level, but not worth the purchase price of a full extra workshop*).

* Okay... a Motorcycle workshop really will be missing some things needed for working on Cars, like car lifts and big-block engine lifts, also they'd likely not have several of the specialty digital diagnostic tools for Autos (at TL 8).

Otherwise, see above "below the resolution of GURPS" comment. At this stage, yeah, charging an additional halfprice to upgrade a Motorcyle shop to an Automotive shop is probably necessary. However said Motorcycle shop should also be smaller and cheaper than a full Automotive shop (you can fit everything* you need for a full* Motorcycle workshop in a 10'x10' shed, compared to what you see in an Automotive shop, for instance).

* Not including Machinist tools naturally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Basic equipment probably corresponds to a tool kit in the $20 to $40 range like this one.
That is a Cheap (Fragile), Cheap (Finicky*), Mini Mechanic (Automotive/Motorcycle) Toolkit by GURPS standards.


* -1 to skill, -1 to Bad Temper and Berserk checks... ;)
evileeyore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2017, 04:40 PM   #130
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

In that case the tool kit isn't going to available for sale at any of those places.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
federal agencies, hans-christian vortisch, high-tech, jade serenity, modern firepower, special ops

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.