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Old 12-27-2010, 01:20 AM   #1
fritzling
 
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Default Cheat! on Loaded Die

Scenario: I was in a heated game winning battle. Of course, everyone pulls out the stops to make sure you can't win that particular battle. As such, after a number of cards had been played on all fronts, I had to attempt to run away. After making a successful die roll to run away, an opponent used a Cheat! card on a Loaded Die card to force my roll to be a loosing roll.

As the rules are stated on the cards, it is possible to make an argument in favor of the use of the Cheat! card in this manner (and they did make a pretty okey-dokey argument). But, it is also possible, in my opinion, to make a stronger argument against the point.

Needless to say, to avoid a lengthy discussion, I allowed the play, with reservations and under protest, and mentioned that I'd bring it up on the Munchkin Forum.

So now, I bring it to the experts:

Is using the Cheat Card on the Loaded Die card in the manner that the person cheating gets to affect the die roll that somebody else made an acceptable cheat?

Last edited by fritzling; 12-27-2010 at 01:23 AM.
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Old 12-27-2010, 02:07 AM   #2
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Default Re: Cheat! on Loaded Die

No, given that Cheat! very clearly states that you may use any one iem that would otherwise be against the rules, there is no possible way to interpret it as affecting a dice roll.
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Old 12-27-2010, 02:07 AM   #3
Andrew Hackard
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Default Re: Cheat! on Loaded Die

No, for a couple reasons.

1) You can only use Cheat! on your own Item.

2) Even if you could use it on someone else's Item, Cheat! only lets you use an Item that you couldn't otherwise use. It isn't a universal "do whatever you like" card.
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Old 12-30-2010, 06:10 PM   #4
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Default Re: Cheat! on Loaded Die

Andrew: The die itself is not an Item. Whereas, The Loaded Die card IS an Item, an Item that is in play and/or in the other person's hand with a Cheat! card - which are parameters of the Cheat! card usage.

Nerftw: Yes there is a way to interpret the Cheat! card to be used on the Loaded Die. See below.

This is how the arguments played out:

The Affirmative to the argument that the Cheat! card can be used on the Loaded Die is that the Loaded Die, which is an Item, is used to reset a die after "you" roll. The Cheat! in the case was to reset the die that "another person" rolls. Thus using the Cheat!, as written, being able to use an item that you would not normally be able to use. The argument: if you can change the verbiage of "usable by wizards only" then you can change the verbiage on another card form "you" to "another person"

My point of the Negative to this argument, is that is that the use of the Cheat! card in this fashion takes away from the accepted essence of the design of the Cheat! card: allows an extra hand/armor/footgear and/or the use of an other than your race/class/sex specific Item.

It seams to me that the logic of the Affirmative to use the Cheat! card in the fashion of actually changing verbiage, as opposed to simply eradicating limitations, turns it into a "Do Whatever You Like!" card (well put Andrew!). Using the logic of the Affirmative, one could attach the Cheat! card to an Item that says "Usable once only" and use it multiple times.

I'm of the understanding, call it my standpoint if you will, that the Cheat! card is used to simply remove physical use limitations applied to Items, not to outright change verbiage, add bonuses, and/or change the rules of the card itself.

Last edited by fritzling; 12-31-2010 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:03 PM   #5
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Default Re: Cheat! on Loaded Die

You can not use Cheat! on Loaded Die, period. End of story. Loaded Die has no restrictions on it which would prevent you from using it when the appropriate conditions exist, and the appropriate conditions for playing Loaded Die are: You just rolled a die and want to change the result. Since you can't even play Cheat! on it, there are no conditions where you could use Cheat! on it to affect someone else's die roll. That's as official as it gets.

If you're interested in what the Cheat! card can do, I have written a nice little post about it, in a thread which includes lots of other useful information.
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Last edited by MunchkinMan; 12-30-2010 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 12-31-2010, 12:30 PM   #6
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Default Re: Cheat! on Loaded Die

MunchkinMan: Thanks for modifying your initial response for the thread. As you can see, I didn't just merely dismiss Andrews response, I just supplied the logic arguments of the viewpoints that were made during the game. Both mine and theirs.

Thank y'all for taking the time to address this thread. I have NO PROBLEM telling people, "The game designers said NO! YOU CAN'T USE IT THAT WAY! I TOLD'JA SO! NYAH!"

Then I'll offer them a hug.

:)
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