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Old 11-13-2009, 05:16 PM   #1
General Lee
 
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Default .50 M211 Mod.0 Raufoss

Hello everyone,

I'm running a military campaign in Afghanistan. PC's are part of a ODA, A-team, of Army SF. One of my players was carrying a M107 when he spot an enemy on a crest at about 1.000 yards. he stated he was carrying M211 Mod.0 Raufoss munition and would try an overhead shot and kill the al-qaeda terrorist with the Raufoss blast.

Ok. I faced a challenge. So...

First, what is Raufoss`s damage?

Second, how big is the blast?

In game, I played the PC to a miss. Fortunately, the team watched the terrorist going to a cave and requested a termobaric bomb in the opening...BOOM! USA wins one more fight...but I would apreciate to have more stats to face the situation again, if necessary...

Thank you in advance.

General Lee.
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Old 11-13-2009, 05:39 PM   #2
Anthony
 
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Default Re: .50 M211 Mod.0 Raufoss

In the military, you get the gear you're assigned, not the gear you want, so I'd probably just tell the player that he doesn't have that weapon (or really, any other weapon that I don't have stats for; if a player wants something not in the book, he'd better tell me ahead of time). However, based on stats, it should do roughly normal basic damage for a .50 caliber round (13d+1 pi+), plus a blast effect of 1d (3g HE equivalent) or less, with normal explosive scaling (divide by 3x range in hexes). Also, since the Raufoss does not have a timed fuse, what he was trying isn't actually possible with that round (an XM25 could do it).
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Old 11-13-2009, 07:23 PM   #3
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Default Re: .50 M211 Mod.0 Raufoss

Yeah, the Mk.211 Mod 0 doesn't have an airburst fuse (Or any mechanical fuse at all, apparantly) and is set off purely by the impact starting a detonation train. It's also estimated at about a 50% chance of igniting from striking a person (Though it apparantly would completely overpenetrate the person before detonating).

As for damage, the M2HB and M82A1/M107 entries in High Tech have an entry for APHEX ammo, which is probably very close in performance (I'm unsure, might even be based off the Mk.211). Kinetic damage is almost identical, just adding AD(2) and reducing damage type from pi+ to pi, and it adds a 1d-2 [1d-2] cr ex follow-up. The explosion is intended to add additional effect to crew inside a small vehicle (Where the damage is incresed by the confines of the space), and it's a rather small amount of explosives, so the blast itself is rather unimpressive in an open area. Fragmentation could be a threat, though it's likely to also be unimpressive. It's nowhere near a grenade in effect, even the smaller 25mm ones.

I'm not aware of any current direct-fire personal weapon currently in service that have such a delayed-airburst feature, though I could be forgetting something. The standard M107 is certainly not one, in any case.
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Old 11-14-2009, 01:02 AM   #4
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Default Re: .50 M211 Mod.0 Raufoss

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Lee View Post
One of my players was carrying a M107 when he spot an enemy on a crest at about 1.000 yards. he stated he was carrying M211 Mod.0 Raufoss munition and would try an overhead shot and kill the al-qaeda terrorist with the Raufoss blast.
This is impossible. The MK 211 MOD 0 doesn't work this way. It can't explode overhead. It doesn't have a time, radar, laser, or any other fuse that would allow it to be exploded like that.
It will only detonate after having impacted on something hard (delayed) -- a vehicle, usually.
For once, this is reasonably well illustrated on wikipedia.

Edit: Just noticed that the wikipedia entry, as I should have expected, gets it wrong, after all. It says there that "HEIAP munitions use high explosives to "blast a path" for the penetrator". That, frankly, is total BS. The small amount of explosive can't do anything to the armour plate that the round is designed to go through. The explosion doesn't occur prior to penetration, but delayed, after the core went through the armour. You can see this here. Oh well. At least the illustration on the wiki site is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Lee View Post
First, what is Raufoss`s damage?

Second, how big is the blast?
The MK 211 MOD 0 is an APHEX round in GURPS (High-Tech, p. 118).

Cheers

HANS
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Last edited by HANS; 11-14-2009 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 11-14-2009, 04:44 AM   #5
General Lee
 
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Default Re: .50 M211 Mod.0 Raufoss

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
In the military, you get the gear you're assigned, not the gear you want, so I'd probably just tell the player that he doesn't have that weapon (or really, any other weapon that I don't have stats for; if a player wants something not in the book, he'd better tell me ahead of time).
Ok. I just thougt sort of anticlimax preclude theplayer's idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon View Post
Yeah, the Mk.211 Mod 0 doesn't have an airburst fuse (Or any mechanical fuse at all, apparantly) and is set off purely by the impact starting a detonation train. It's also estimated at about a 50% chance of igniting from striking a person (Though it apparantly would completely overpenetrate the person before detonating).
Quote:
Originally Posted by HANS View Post
This is impossible. The MK 211 MOD 0 doesn't work this way. It can't explode overhead. It doesn't have a time, radar, laser, or any other fuse that would allow it to be exploded like that.
Sorry, I don't put it right. It's not an airburst attack, or something that implies a fuse. When I describe the lay of the land to PC's, the PC with the M107 ask me if there's rock behind the enemy, because a head shot at 1000 yards was dreadful (skill- 6 with alll modifiers - there is a lot of wind in the valley), so he came with an idea of shot the rock and get the enemy with the cr ex damage of the Raufoss. I too though something stupid and unreal, but this player was of the spoiled type, so I carry on and he was unsuccesful.


Thanks a lot you all for all informations you gave me. I had some conclusions but want to make sure.
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Old 11-14-2009, 07:13 AM   #6
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Default Re: .50 M211 Mod.0 Raufoss

Quote:
When I describe the lay of the land to PC's, the PC with the M107 ask me if there's rock behind the enemy, because a head shot at 1000 yards was dreadful (skill- 6 with alll modifiers - there is a lot of wind in the valley), so he came with an idea of shot the rock and get the enemy with the cr ex damage of the Raufoss. I too though something stupid and unreal, but this player was of the spoiled type, so I carry on and he was unsuccesful.
I actually think it's a pretty good and creative idea, rather than simply shooting at the guy with huge penalties. I'm tired of "attack roll - defense roll" with no flavour. But that's just me, you might want to keep combat straightforward like that. Your game, your choice.
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Old 11-14-2009, 07:27 AM   #7
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Default Re: .50 M211 Mod.0 Raufoss

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Originally Posted by Tema69 View Post
I actually think it's a pretty good and creative idea, rather than simply shooting at the guy with huge penalties.
No, it's not. 1,000 yards it not a very long range for such a weapon. Military snipers use 7.62x51mm rifles to that range. For a .50-calibre weapon with the right optics and a shooter who actually knows how to properly use it (ie, with high Guns and the Precision Aiming technique), 1,000 yards should not be a problem.

The MK 211 MOD 0 does not have significant blast and fragmentation to effectively use it this way. The explosive content in there is to disrupt vehicle interiors and detonate ammunition or fuel. The game stats support this: 1d-2 cr ex is a lame explosion by anyone's definition, and 1d-2 cut is not much fragmentionation damage.

Cheers

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Old 11-14-2009, 07:31 AM   #8
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Default Re: .50 M211 Mod.0 Raufoss

Hmm... Considering it's an armor-piercing explosive round, intended to detonate -inside- the target, it would probably detonate entirely inside the rock. Probably zero blast to anyone else, and likely only stone fragments in a limited arc back from the blast doing "incidental fragmentation" damage (Considering the small explosive charge, probably about 1d-3, maybe 1d-4?).

Though considering that even a "surface" detonation a yard away from the person is unlikely to do more than minor injuries, it's probably a moot point.

Though really... He's got a M107. Sure, a head shot might be hard, but a body shot is more than enough to do the job...

EDIT: Or, yeah, what Hans said... :)
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:27 AM   #9
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Default Re: .50 M211 Mod.0 Raufoss

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tema69 View Post
I actually think it's a pretty good and creative idea,
It would be good and creative idea for something larger. A tank crew could have "wasted" a big HEAT round on the rock to get the jihadi with the relatively small explosive damage incidental to the HEAT explosion.
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Old 11-14-2009, 02:50 PM   #10
General Lee
 
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Default Re: .50 M211 Mod.0 Raufoss

Quote:
Originally Posted by HANS View Post
No, it's not. 1,000 yards it not a very long range for such a weapon. Military snipers use 7.62x51mm rifles to that range. For a .50-calibre weapon with the right optics and a shooter who actually knows how to properly use it (ie, with high Guns and the Precision Aiming technique), 1,000 yards should not be a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon View Post
Though really... He's got a M107. Sure, a head shot might be hard, but a body shot is more than enough to do the job...
Yeah, for sure. In that same game, with the same player - and gun -, a druglord near the border of Pakistan was "vaporized" with a body shot at aproximatelly 1,400 yards, but in other conditions. The target wasn't ducking behind obstacles and exposing himself just for shoot back, but standing unaware that he would became a pink mist just before a second after the PC shot him.

The player doesn't figured he could use better the wait maneuver to aim at a point that the target would appear and BANG... That what I would do, but I'm the GM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HANS View Post
The MK 211 MOD 0 does not have significant blast and fragmentation to effectively use it this way. The explosive content in there is to disrupt vehicle interiors and detonate ammunition or fuel. The game stats support this: 1d-2 cr ex is a lame explosion by anyone's definition, and 1d-2 cut is not much fragmentionation damage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon View Post
Hmm... Considering it's an armor-piercing explosive round, intended to detonate -inside- the target, it would probably detonate entirely inside the rock. Probably zero blast to anyone else, and likely only stone fragments in a limited arc back from the blast doing "incidental fragmentation" damage (Considering the small explosive charge, probably about 1d-3, maybe 1d-4?).
I agree. It's why I thought my player's stupid at first. But I can't put it directly to him. :)

Last edited by General Lee; 11-14-2009 at 03:03 PM.
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