Forcing an enemy to hit a specific hit location.

Calvin · 06-22-2015, 05:26 PM

This scenario is taken from one of Bernard Cornwell's Sharpe books.

The main character was facing an enemy too fast for Sharpe to be able to parry reliably, but was aware (In GURPS terms) of the specific hit location that the enemy was striking at. (The abdomen/vitals)

Instead of attempting and likely failing a parry, Sharpe instead put his upper leg in the way. In GURPS terms this reduces the wound modifier since it's not a vitals hit, and caps the damage since it's to a limb.

I was trying to come up with a way to model this in GURPS, and the unarmed parry rules by them self seem to go part of the way there. But there's too issues, first is that the attacker could still opt to attack his original location instead of the one put in the way. The second is that the unarmed parry is likely either not any better, and probably worse than the standard armed parry.

It seems like some sort of bonus should be applied since there is no attempt to prevent the parrying limb from taking damage, and some sort of way to force the attacker to hit that limb.

Leynok · 06-22-2015, 07:13 PM

This becomes very much potential for abuse when you start having DR for 1 arm only. Huge price discount, and will block most attacks for you.
If you can force someone to hit a specific hit location, then the natural response is to armor it heavily, to make that single location more immune to damage.

D10 · 06-22-2015, 07:30 PM

Awesome, love the series.

Maybe he parried it with his leg merely using brawling ?

ericthered · 06-22-2015, 07:35 PM

It has previously been suggested that targeted attacks can be 'dodged' for +1 (or 2, I can't remember) by only making sure the blow doesn't hit its target. This is clearly a defense to a targeted attack. For making a standard attack or a torso attack hit somewhere else, I agree that its a parry.

JMD · 06-25-2015, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D10

Awesome, love the series.

Maybe he parried it with his leg merely using brawling ?

My thought exactly. There are rules for damage to limbs when parrying weapons, and should be used in handling this. If someone wants to heavily armor their arm or leg and use it to parry incoming blows that is perfectly fine in RAW and in real life. Of course, if you miss the parry, they can choose to attack the limb that parried or their original target, so it may not always work out in high damage situations.

Curmudgeon · 06-25-2015, 11:10 AM

Personally, I wouldn't call it a parry at all, but a block using a body part as a substitute for a shield.

What it actually sounds like would be Concentrated Defense (MA62 from Martial Arts, 2nd Ed. for GURPS 3rd Ed.).

Roughly speaking, consider the body as having four areas: head, torso, arms and legs and you can increase the bonus to defense by +1 for a -1 penalty to the other three. Vitals only gave a +2 bonus for a -1 penalty to all four.

The only other thing I might think about adding would be a Will roll to actually interpose the body part between the attacker and you. The interposing limb is, after all, going to get hurt and people should be understandably chary of using this trick. On the other hand, you could give a bonus to the will roll if the result of taking the attack would be perceived as leaving the defender much worse off.

As for the attacker opting to attack the original location, I wouldn't think so. The limb, in your example the upper leg, is in the way. The attacker can't get around it without attempting to change his line of attack, which ought to call for its own penalties at the tactical combat time scale. This is why I'd call it a block rather than a parry and also say it's an exception to needing a shield or cloak to block and that it's also an exception to not being able to block on your weapon side without penalty, providing the limb doing the blocking is a weapon side limb.

Skarg · 06-26-2015, 11:04 AM

This reminds me of the recent thread here about shield defense bonus, in which it was mentioned by some people with some real-life sport shield experience that holding a shield tends to completely cover some body parts. GURPS already has a rule for this but it only applies to the shield hand and arm.

In Sharpe's case, I think maybe we're missing a bit of scene description for how this was practical. Usually, getting a leg up in front of one's gut isn't terribly easy while standing, doesn't cover everything, and messes up one's own balance and ability to do other things pretty severely. Maybe Sharpe had a good height advantage?

GodBeastX · 06-26-2015, 11:50 AM

I think you are looking at it backwards OP.

The unarmed parry was -successful- if it got hit instead of the original target.

To parry the same attack you would need to all out defend and use the body part you want to parry with as the brawling/karate/DX parry.

Skarg · 06-27-2015, 04:18 PM

Except as has been said, Sharpe probably has a worse unarmed parry than his Fencing parry, and the book said he was trying to improve his chances, which a RAW unarmed parry would not do.

GodBeastX · 06-27-2015, 06:20 PM

Parrying twice with a fencing weapon is Parry then Parry-4. Which means the unarmed may be better.

06-22-2015, 05:26 PM	#1
Calvin Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Calgary	Forcing an enemy to hit a specific hit location. This scenario is taken from one of Bernard Cornwell's Sharpe books. The main character was facing an enemy too fast for Sharpe to be able to parry reliably, but was aware (In GURPS terms) of the specific hit location that the enemy was striking at. (The abdomen/vitals) Instead of attempting and likely failing a parry, Sharpe instead put his upper leg in the way. In GURPS terms this reduces the wound modifier since it's not a vitals hit, and caps the damage since it's to a limb. I was trying to come up with a way to model this in GURPS, and the unarmed parry rules by them self seem to go part of the way there. But there's too issues, first is that the attacker could still opt to attack his original location instead of the one put in the way. The second is that the unarmed parry is likely either not any better, and probably worse than the standard armed parry. It seems like some sort of bonus should be applied since there is no attempt to prevent the parrying limb from taking damage, and some sort of way to force the attacker to hit that limb.

06-22-2015, 07:13 PM	#2
Leynok Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Australia WA	Re: Forcing an enemy to hit a specific hit location. This becomes very much potential for abuse when you start having DR for 1 arm only. Huge price discount, and will block most attacks for you. If you can force someone to hit a specific hit location, then the natural response is to armor it heavily, to make that single location more immune to damage.

06-22-2015, 07:30 PM	#3
D10 Join Date: May 2009 Location: In Rio de Janeiro, where it was cyberpunk before it was cool.	Re: Forcing an enemy to hit a specific hit location. Awesome, love the series. Maybe he parried it with his leg merely using brawling ?

06-22-2015, 07:35 PM	#4
ericthered Hero of Democracy Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: far from the ocean	Re: Forcing an enemy to hit a specific hit location. It has previously been suggested that targeted attacks can be 'dodged' for +1 (or 2, I can't remember) by only making sure the blow doesn't hit its target. This is clearly a defense to a targeted attack. For making a standard attack or a torso attack hit somewhere else, I agree that its a parry. __________________ Be helpful, not pedantic Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!

06-25-2015, 11:10 AM	#6
Curmudgeon Join Date: Sep 2011	Re: Forcing an enemy to hit a specific hit location. Personally, I wouldn't call it a parry at all, but a block using a body part as a substitute for a shield. What it actually sounds like would be Concentrated Defense (MA62 from Martial Arts, 2nd Ed. for GURPS 3rd Ed.). Roughly speaking, consider the body as having four areas: head, torso, arms and legs and you can increase the bonus to defense by +1 for a -1 penalty to the other three. Vitals only gave a +2 bonus for a -1 penalty to all four. The only other thing I might think about adding would be a Will roll to actually interpose the body part between the attacker and you. The interposing limb is, after all, going to get hurt and people should be understandably chary of using this trick. On the other hand, you could give a bonus to the will roll if the result of taking the attack would be perceived as leaving the defender much worse off. As for the attacker opting to attack the original location, I wouldn't think so. The limb, in your example the upper leg, is in the way. The attacker can't get around it without attempting to change his line of attack, which ought to call for its own penalties at the tactical combat time scale. This is why I'd call it a block rather than a parry and also say it's an exception to needing a shield or cloak to block and that it's also an exception to not being able to block on your weapon side without penalty, providing the limb doing the blocking is a weapon side limb.

06-26-2015, 11:04 AM	#7
Skarg Join Date: May 2015	Re: Forcing an enemy to hit a specific hit location. This reminds me of the recent thread here about shield defense bonus, in which it was mentioned by some people with some real-life sport shield experience that holding a shield tends to completely cover some body parts. GURPS already has a rule for this but it only applies to the shield hand and arm. In Sharpe's case, I think maybe we're missing a bit of scene description for how this was practical. Usually, getting a leg up in front of one's gut isn't terribly easy while standing, doesn't cover everything, and messes up one's own balance and ability to do other things pretty severely. Maybe Sharpe had a good height advantage?

06-26-2015, 11:50 AM	#8
GodBeastX Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Behind You	Re: Forcing an enemy to hit a specific hit location. I think you are looking at it backwards OP. The unarmed parry was -successful- if it got hit instead of the original target. To parry the same attack you would need to all out defend and use the body part you want to parry with as the brawling/karate/DX parry.

06-27-2015, 04:18 PM	#9
Skarg Join Date: May 2015	Re: Forcing an enemy to hit a specific hit location. Except as has been said, Sharpe probably has a worse unarmed parry than his Fencing parry, and the book said he was trying to improve his chances, which a RAW unarmed parry would not do.

06-27-2015, 06:20 PM	#10
GodBeastX Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Behind You	Re: Forcing an enemy to hit a specific hit location. Parrying twice with a fencing weapon is Parry then Parry-4. Which means the unarmed may be better.