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Old 11-15-2018, 05:57 PM   #1
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Fifty caliber under the hood? How Gauche.

Never would have thought I'd see the day when someone weaponized a Prius. But - maybe Car Wars was prophetic in its vision, just got its dates wrong?

Electric powered car? Check.

M61 Vulcan 20mm Rotary cannon? Check.

What it took to mount that thing on the Prius? More than you might have thought. And it wasn't even TURRET mounted!

HERE is where you can view it on Youtube.

Last edited by hal; 11-15-2018 at 06:25 PM. Reason: Put in 25mm in error
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Old 11-16-2018, 03:58 PM   #2
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Default Re: Fifty caliber under the hood? How Gauche.

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Originally Posted by hal View Post
Never would have thought I'd see the day when someone weaponized a Prius. But - maybe Car Wars was prophetic in its vision, just got its dates wrong?
To be strictly accurate:

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Originally Posted by hal View Post
Electric powered car? Check.
Not *quite* -- there's a gasburner up front; but it's more for charging the batteries. (It's about how we always pictured gasburners working in _CW_ -- the wheel motors "don't care" where the electricity comes from, so long as it's there; so one could be using a fuel-cell, or a gasburner, to power the wheel motors.)

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Originally Posted by hal View Post
M61 Vulcan 20mm Rotary cannon? Check.
That's closer to a Gatling Cannon [the 5-sp. beast from _Aeroduel_] than a VMG.

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Originally Posted by hal View Post
What it took to mount that thing on the Prius? More than you might have thought. And it wasn't even TURRET mounted!
I think it falls under Spinal Mount rules -- note one would have to aim the entire car to get the gun on-target.

(IMSMC: Wasn't there a _Mythbusters_ ep where they designed and built an aimable gun-mount for a car?)

But it is interesting to see how in some ways Reality has surpassed _CW_....
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Old 11-16-2018, 05:11 PM   #3
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Default Re: Fifty caliber under the hood? How Gauche.

Strictly speaking, by strict CW rules, that's an illegal design >:)
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Old 11-16-2018, 05:29 PM   #4
hal
 
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Default Re: Fifty caliber under the hood? How Gauche.

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Strictly speaking, by strict CW rules, that's an illegal design >:)
Don't just say "illegal". Say why it is illegal. :)
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:11 PM   #5
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Default Re: Fifty caliber under the hood? How Gauche.

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Originally Posted by hal View Post
M61 Vulcan 20mm Rotary cannon? Check.
Sure, I'm totally linking a couple of these forward in precision aimable mounts (according to Car Wars rules) . . . okay, so I'll need to upgrade to a mid-sized or luxury body.

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Originally Posted by 43Supporter View Post
That's closer to a Gatling Cannon [the 5-sp. beast from _Aeroduel_] than a VMG.
Actually, the massive gun mounted on the roof of that Prius is the famed Vulcan Machine Gun or VMG (better used in dogfights vs. jet fighters).

Even the smaller, reduced-caliber (7.62 mm) "vulcan" M134 minigun seems a bit unwieldy for the intended Car Wars application.

It does seem that Car Wars "marketing" had to play pretty loose with that label.

Even when the internet wasn't around, I was always puzzled by the VMG graphic in Uncle Albert's 2035 Catalog. It is just a single-barrelled machine gun whereas the Vulcan is iconically an externally-powered, six-barrel, gatling design. (Awesome, I just checked, and you can see what I mean in the PDF preview on p. 2.)

I'm no gun expert, but in that same graphic, it is interesting to note the presence of what looks to be some kind of cylindrical gear. Was the impressive Vulcan label just used to indicate a more rapid firing gun geared to external power?

Maybe someone can help me with the applications of this, but I did look up revolver cannons (not to be confused with rotary cannons like the Vulcan). A lower-caliber, single-barrel revolver cannon may be the best way to justify a Car Wars "vulcan machine gun."

Can anyone here shed any light on the actual design intent of the VMG in Car Wars?

In any event, I'm nowhere near prepared to justify three, forward-linked recoilless rifles in a luxury body. The M50 Ontos had six on a rather small tank, but they were all external.

From the video posted by hal above (thank you, by the way), I was struck by the expense of operating the gun. At $27.00 a round and a rate of 6,600 rounds per minute here is your ammo bill:
$2,970 per second.
$178,200 per minute.

I love this quote from the video:
Quote:
This thing is just capable of draining a bank account like . . . bam!
Can we convince the U.S. Military that one minute would be better spent on an SJ Games Kickstarter?
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Old 11-17-2018, 12:22 PM   #6
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Default Re: Fifty caliber under the hood? How Gauche.

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Originally Posted by Tom H. View Post
Even when the internet wasn't around, I was always puzzled by the VMG graphic in Uncle Albert's 2035 Catalog. It is just a single-barrelled machine gun whereas the Vulcan is iconically an externally-powered, six-barrel, gatling design. (Awesome, I just checked, and you can see what I mean in the PDF preview on p. 2.)
Important safety tip: Do not try to use the pictures in Uncle Albert's Catalogs or ADQ to try to figure out what the items really look like or how they operate. They are notoriously way off base.
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Old 11-17-2018, 01:05 PM   #7
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Default Re: Fifty caliber under the hood? How Gauche.

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Actually, the massive gun mounted on the roof of that Prius is the famed Vulcan Machine Gun or VMG (better used in dogfights vs. jet fighters).
I'm going by size, and damage inflicted -- that's a GC, not a VMG. :)
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Old 11-17-2018, 02:12 PM   #8
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Default Re: Fifty caliber under the hood? How Gauche.

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Originally Posted by brionl View Post
Important safety tip: Do not try to use the pictures in Uncle Albert's Catalogs or ADQ to try to figure out what the items really look like or how they operate. They are notoriously way off base.
A "Vulcan" machinegun, to me at least, is a minigun or electronic Gatling gun. A Vulcan canon, on the other hand, is an autocannon, though perhaps for CW this could be a "new" weapon. A Prius is arguable a compact, possible between a compact and subcompact, which means anything larger than a one space turret cannot be mounted. A "Vulcan" machinegun is 2-spaces. An autocannon is 3-spaces.

This brings up an interesting point. How about a couple of new pieces of gear?

Turreted Platform; any-size space up to X-number of spaces (4?), weighs half or a third as much as a comparable size turret plus whatever weapon is mounted. Can be mounted on any vehicle, but compacts and subcompacts suffer -2 or -3 targeting modifier due to recoil. Medium and sedan, -1. Luxury or limo; 0.

Vulcan Canon; like an autocannon, but is one space larger, weighs X-number of pounds more, does the same damage as an autocannon, but Xd6 +4. Severe DMs for firing laterally, normal DMs for firing forward or backwards.

*EDIT* I believe a sample autocannon is something like what the Soviets used to mount in the Mig 17. Other examples abound, but autocannons, if I understand correctly, are different in that they are not rotary barrel designs, but rapid firing large bore "anti-material rifles" of a sort. One of you weapon or military experts can correctly me if I'm wrong.
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Old 11-17-2018, 02:38 PM   #9
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Default Re: Fifty caliber under the hood? How Gauche.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brionl View Post
Important safety tip: Do not try to use the pictures in Uncle Albert's Catalogs or ADQ to try to figure out what the items really look like or how they operate. They are notoriously way off base.
I always prefer when artists and designers invest some thought and rationale into their work . . . I was probably too generous in this case.

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Originally Posted by Blue Ghost View Post
A "Vulcan" machinegun, to me at least, is a minigun or electronic Gatling gun. A Vulcan canon, on the other hand, is an autocannon, though perhaps for CW this could be a "new" weapon.
Yes, I guess I glossed over the machine gun part in preference to the Vulcan emphasis. The "marketing" term Vulcan Machine Gun is most fitting for a rotary gun; although, I tried to stretch it to any reliable, externally powered mechanism regardless of barrel quantity.

I'm still studying this stuff, but it's interesting that single barrel "chain guns" (which use external power) like the M242 Bushmaster (mounted on Bradley Fighting Vehicles for example) as well as the cannon on Apache helicopters do not typically exhibit exceptionally high rates of fire.

Is the primary benefit of these designs then their reliability?

I had considered the role of a chain gun in Car Wars.
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Old 11-17-2018, 02:38 PM   #10
hal
 
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Default Re: Fifty caliber under the hood? How Gauche.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Ghost View Post
A Prius is arguable a compact, possible between a compact and subcompact, which means anything larger than a one space turret cannot be mounted. A "Vulcan" machinegun is 2-spaces. An autocannon is 3-spaces.

This brings up an interesting point. How about a couple of new pieces of gear?

Turreted Platform; any-size space up to X-number of spaces (4?), weighs half or a third as much as a comparable size turret plus whatever weapon is mounted. Can be mounted on any vehicle, but compacts and subcompacts suffer -2 or -3 targeting modifier due to recoil. Medium and sedan, -1. Luxury or limo; 0.

Vulcan Canon; like an autocannon, but is one space larger, weighs X-number of pounds more, does the same damage as an autocannon, but Xd6 +4. Severe DMs for firing laterally, normal DMs for firing forward or backwards.

*EDIT* I believe a sample autocannon is something like what the Soviets used to mount in the Mig 17. Other examples abound, but autocannons, if I understand correctly, are different in that they are not rotary barrel designs, but rapid firing large bore "anti-material rifles" of a sort. One of you weapon or military experts can correctly me if I'm wrong.
Assuming that the size classification of mid-sized cars haven't changed since Car Wars came out, it appears that the Prius would be categorized as a mid-sized vehicle per the specs on it online.

I'm going to see if I can find out how cars are classified (compact, sub-compact, mid-sized, etc)

I'm hoping to be able to use the Wikipedia entry on car classifications:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_classification

Last edited by hal; 11-17-2018 at 02:44 PM. Reason: Added a link
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