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Old 11-15-2018, 04:36 PM   #31
ak_aramis
 
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Default Re: How does 5e D&D compare to the others?

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
5e is also very friendly to DX fighters who can use their DX bonus for both to hit and damage with the right weapons. My current DM is concerned that ST-based Fighters aren't favored enough.
Strength based fighters get to use D12 and d10 weapons, vs the d8 Rapier (last I checked, the highest damage finesse weapon), and heavy armor; the overal AC is the same, but the damage output is slightly higher for an optimized Str-based fighter.

In the long run that's not a big issue.

But it ignores the real benefit of a Dex-Fighter. Bonus action attacks with the off-hand weapon. Which evens up the damage potential, and, potentially exceeds it. (d8+d6+DexMod is nominally better than d12+StrMod, if your attack bonus is higher than their AC bonuses).

The Barbarian, in addition to d12 hit die, the AC bonus from Con, and the rage, also can exceed 20 attribute for Str & Con.

In my experience, despite the math implying otherwise,
  • Str or Dex based Fighter are about even overall, given the style bonuses.
  • Barbarians, Str Based is chosen, but Dex Based is higher overlap.
  • Rogues - May as well use Dex, since it ties to too much
  • Clerics - either way, it's the magic that matters most.
  • Wizards - since they can use a sword in 5E, if they're going to, it's better to go the Dex route, since they don't have armor.
All of the above dependent upon the player playing to the archetype.
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Old 11-15-2018, 04:42 PM   #32
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Default Re: How does 5e D&D compare to the others?

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Even in first edition, a party with a cleric is unlikely to spend more than a couple of days to reach full health. In third edition, wand of CLW spam means full health after every encounter is the norm and what matters is spell recovery, not hit point recovery. Really, if you want lasting injuries in any edition of D&D, you have to prohibit resting.
AD&D 1 was 1 HP a night for the first 30, then 5 per night thereafter (PHB, 105), assuming resting. Not fast at all. CLW was useful, but if the cleric was in healbot mode, the cleric wasn't useful except as a third rate fighter. Plus, the cleric couldn't pick at casting time which spell, but only at their scheduled prayer time, in advance. So, it took getting somewhere to hole up for a full 36 hours (typically) to get a full heal-spam out of most clerics.

Few cleric players I've met would go along with that, either, not even in "Pick at casting time" 5E.
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Old 11-15-2018, 05:00 PM   #33
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Default Re: How does 5e D&D compare to the others?

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But it ignores the real benefit of a Dex-Fighter. Bonus action attacks with the off-hand weapon.
Unfortunately, you get only one bonus action (and you have to be using a Light primary weapon). At first level, dual scimitars is 1d6+stat/1d6, which is a match for a greatsword at 2d6+stat, but once you hit two attacks at level 5-6, dual scimitars is 3d6+2xstat, greatsword is 4d6+2xstat.
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Old 11-15-2018, 05:03 PM   #34
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Default Re: How does 5e D&D compare to the others?

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Few cleric players I've met would go along with that, either, not even in "Pick at casting time" 5E.
It's better to hole up for a full day than rely on natural healing rates. Why wouldn't a cleric go along with "today, no-one is doing anything and the healbot is healing people"? It only takes a few minutes to RP out, even if it takes a game day.
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Old 11-15-2018, 06:21 PM   #35
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Default Re: How does 5e D&D compare to the others?

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Unfortunately, you get only one bonus action (and you have to be using a Light primary weapon). At first level, dual scimitars is 1d6+stat/1d6, which is a match for a greatsword at 2d6+stat, but once you hit two attacks at level 5-6, dual scimitars is 3d6+2xstat, greatsword is 4d6+2xstat.
With a Half-Orc Barbarian you get a bonus D12 with the Great-axe criticals. Then at 2nd level you get Reckless attack and can attack with advanatage every round (so can your enemies but what do you care you only take 1/2 damage?). Advantage doubles your chance of getting crits.

Then at 3rd level is you take Path of the Berserker you can do Frenzy once per day and get an extra attack before anyone else.
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Old 11-15-2018, 06:59 PM   #36
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Default Re: How does 5e D&D compare to the others?

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With a Half-Orc Barbarian you get a bonus D12 with the Great-axe criticals. Then at 2nd level you get Reckless attack and can attack with advanatage every round (so can your enemies but what do you care you only take 1/2 damage?). Advantage doubles your chance of getting crits.
Looking at the other fighter classes:

Fighter and Ranger both have access to both great weapon and dual weapon. Paladin has access to great weapon. Thus, we can look at how they compare:

Dual Weapon (Scimitars): Dex 20, 2+1 attacks, Attack +8/1d+5. Average per hit is 8.5, 12 on crit.
Great Weapon (Greatsword): Str 20, 2 attacks, Attack +8/2d6+5 (reroll 1s and 2s). Average per hit is 13.33 (+57%), 21.67 (+81%) on crit.

Since both crit and non-crit are more than 50% higher, 2 greatsword attacks beats 3 scimitar attacks, and if opportunity attacks come in to play, 3 greatsword attacks certainly beats 4 scimitar attacks. +1 weapons brings non-crit damage roughly into parity.

Once we toss in class features, for fighters a battlemaster uses bonus actions for other purposes, a champion crits more often, so both favor using a single weapon. Ranger is a bit trickier, because hunter's mark is a d6 per attack, but it also consumes bonus actions. Colossus slayer is marginally better with more attacks because it's more likely to trigger, giant killer and horde breaker are both bonus weapon attacks and thus benefit from a large weapon.
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Old 11-15-2018, 11:34 PM   #37
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Default Re: How does 5e D&D compare to the others?

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It's better to hole up for a full day than rely on natural healing rates. Why wouldn't a cleric go along with "today, no-one is doing anything and the healbot is healing people"? It only takes a few minutes to RP out, even if it takes a game day.
2 words: Random Encounters.

Even holing up, by the rules of AD&D, you STILL roll for random encounters.
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