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Old 10-17-2018, 02:55 PM   #11
43Supporter
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: What products for a semi?

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Originally Posted by Racer View Post
That Rig is great & good value to . Swap one of the Laser Batteries for a Small Cycle Power Plant perhaps ? You lose 50 PUs but Improved Fire Extinguisher will be able to run if Trailer & Tractor get separated or Tractor's PP gets destroyed or disabled .
LBs should be able to power the IFE -- PUs is PUs (as established by Lasers and various other vehicle electronics being able to use LB and PP power indistinguishably). Not sure how one would interpret when the IFE is "destroyed" if there's no actual power plant in the trailer; for my part, I'd go with "when the last LB is destroyed, and there's not a semi-tractor with a functioning power plant connected, the IFE stops working".

This is definitely one of those "get in front, and kill the tractor" designs, however one interprets it. >:)
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Old 10-18-2018, 06:38 AM   #12
swordtart
 
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Default Re: What products for a semi?

Personally, I'd be putting those side and back mounted RR's in sponson turrets. The few extra pounds and $ will make little difference to your budget but your fire arcs increase significantly (and it saves you 8 spaces).

I'd add another gunner station as well (since you have 7 firing arcs, you might as well have a dedicated Gunner-2 for each) or you'll always have at least 1 pair out of the fight. Also buy some targeting computers. 7 SWCs are less than 3% of your budget, but will make a massive difference.

Also why so little armour? If this is a dedicated convoy escort, you could put much more armour (and a lot of it metal) to keep you all safe and sound. Since all tractors have a max load of < 20K lb and any sensible tractor capable of hauling this will need a 60K lb capable plant, you have K's of lb to play with.

I would also consider replacing the front 4 tires plus hubs and guards (and all that weight and expense) with the emergency skid plate thing (I forget it's real name). In reality those tires only create a maintenance overhead (if you are using convoy tyre damage rules). You are unlikely to park up anywhere dangerous unconnected and if you become unconnected whilst rolling, it is very unlikely to end well. If memory serves the skid plate forces greater deceleration than the normal 5 per turn which is a good thing.

I'd rather not be rolling in a straight line during a fight for maybe 66" even assuming I'd survived the hazard roll that forced the disconnect in the first place. I spent maybe 5% of phases with the trailer parallel to the road in my last road fight (since trailers don't move in nice 15 degree increments like the tractor does). Even a few degrees off the absolute parallel would take you far off-road (and into far worse trouble) before you coast to a stop.


****

Of course for far less money, you could put together a 40' with 20+ points metal and 50 points plastic on all sides. Take out all the DF weaponry and just carry several dozen good 'ole boys (Handgunner 2) armed with AR's with extended mags and ABV's stuffed with paint grenades (or something more exotic if you don't mind them dropping it in your lap). The rules are a bit vague on how many passengers can fire out of a side arc, I'd say no more than 1 per 1/4" so maybe 8 per side for a 40' and 2 firing to the rear. Since the trailer is 1" high, who is to say you couldn't have a second passenger deck though?

This is quite cost effective vs. bikes, but even against cars the regular D1 hazards from each individual hit can stack up (and you can still target top armour as an out of arc shot). It might make a more interesting low intensity engagement than a proper battle rig.

Dakka Dakka Dakka ;)
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Old 10-18-2018, 06:54 AM   #13
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: What products for a semi?

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Originally Posted by 43Supporter View Post
LBs should be able to power the IFE -- PUs is PUs (as established by Lasers and various other vehicle electronics being able to use LB and PP power indistinguishably). Not sure how one would interpret when the IFE is "destroyed" if there's no actual power plant in the trailer; for my part, I'd go with "when the last LB is destroyed, and there's not a semi-tractor with a functioning power plant connected, the IFE stops working".

This is definitely one of those "get in front, and kill the tractor" designs, however one interprets it. >:)
I recall a debate about whether a Fire Extinguisher in the tractor protected the trailer as well (since the rig is traditionally classed as one vehicle). What about 10 wheelers and the carrier?

I rule that a FE system protects everything when connected together (it is just more hoses) and the space is taken in the same place as the plant and it is destroyed with it. If you wanted to protect a detached trailer you would need a separate FE with an independent power supply (traditionally via a small bike plant or later after it's introduction by a laser battery).

Arguably the FE shouldn't need an independent power supply as it is not a PU draining system. Turrets, computers and radios etc. continue to work with a detached trailer (presumably some dedicated built-in battery/capacitor allows function for some time after disconnect) and weapon systems on cars continue to work even after the plant has been destroyed. I see no reason why this could not apply to FE's. The requirement for them to be destroy-able however is more easily handled by requiring some independent power supply that can be destroyed (and maybe there is no built in battery precisely because they are designed to be attached to a power plant).

Last edited by swordtart; 10-18-2018 at 07:00 AM.
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Old 10-18-2018, 08:11 AM   #14
TheAmishStig
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Default Re: What products for a semi?

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Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
I recall a debate about whether a Fire Extinguisher in the tractor protected the trailer as well (since the rig is traditionally classed as one vehicle). What about 10 wheelers and the carrier?

I rule that a FE system protects everything when connected together (it is just more hoses) and the space is taken in the same place as the plant and it is destroyed with it. If you wanted to protect a detached trailer you would need a separate FE with an independent power supply (traditionally via a small bike plant or later after it's introduction by a laser battery).

Arguably the FE shouldn't need an independent power supply as it is not a PU draining system. Turrets, computers and radios etc. continue to work with a detached trailer (presumably some dedicated built-in battery/capacitor allows function for some time after disconnect) and weapon systems on cars continue to work even after the plant has been destroyed. I see no reason why this could not apply to FE's. The requirement for them to be destroy-able however is more easily handled by requiring some independent power supply that can be destroyed (and maybe there is no built in battery precisely because they are designed to be attached to a power plant).

A thought...and keep in mind I'm talking about books I don't own and vehicle types I've never played with, aka I'm talking out my exhaust manifold here, but...depending on the real-world type of FE system Car Wars mimics (pumped vs pressurized, dry vs liquid vs gas, etc), the power plant requirement may be for the pumps and associated systems, rather than actuators on the valves themselves.

Or it could be as simple as Steve saying "We need to be able to blow this up, but it doesn't warrant its own 'compartment' like passengers / engine / cargo" hand-wavium because fun trumps realism.
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Old 10-18-2018, 12:57 PM   #15
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Default Re: What products for a semi?

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Or it could be as simple as Steve saying "We need to be able to blow this up, but it doesn't warrant its own 'compartment' like passengers / engine / cargo" hand-wavium because fun trumps realism.
The FE rules are a little vague on what sort of system it is; but, as you suggest, getting mired in minutiae is a short course to insanity. :)

One supposes a FE/IFE could have been given a HP value (even a token 1 DP, like a LB); but that's one more thing to roll for when damage goes internal (unless one specifies "accessories attached to plant take damage before plant itself").
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Old 10-23-2018, 03:01 PM   #16
Racer
 
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Default Re: What products for a semi?

Two or Four Sponson Turrets on a 40' Dumper Trailer , make up slightly for lack of Top Turrets . Combined with heavy Metal/ Composite Armour gives an incredibly tough target to defeat . My various Outhauler designs on Combat Garage & elsewhere , mounts 4x Twin HD/Ex VMG Sponsons Smartlinked in side pairs . Often they're also Smartlinked to Tractors Turret as well , if compatible .
Two or three of these Trailers in Convoy with minimal light Escorts , can fend off even well armed attacks & even organised ambushes .

( Originally had a single Sponson on each side , but CG allows four to be mounted . That may be pushing the 'only ten spaces for weaponry rule' for 40' Dumpers , but as those 8 Spaces of Turret Mounts equal 16 Turret Spaces , it seems to be legit ... )

Who would attack Dump Trailers you may ask ? Rival Haulage/Mining companies ; Rebel forces during our African Military Campaign a number of years ago & perhaps desperate/crazy salvage gangs with not much to loose & days to plan sneak attacks etc .
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Last edited by Racer; 10-23-2018 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 10-25-2018, 10:02 AM   #17
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: What products for a semi?

I never even considered sponsons on a dumper. I guess I got it conflated with the rule that you can only mount the same type of sponsons that you could mount turrets (e.g. as subcompacts can't mount a normal turret, they can't mount sponsons). I guess that needn't apply as the only reason you can't have top turrets is becuase you have no top (which would be the case with any vehicle that chose not to mount top armour).

Good rules bustin' ;)
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Old 10-27-2018, 12:47 AM   #18
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Default Re: What products for a semi?

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Here's a design I've used for convoy-escort; it's based off the _Hellfire_ semi-trailer from _VG2_:
And here's a tractor for the beast :) :

Sleeper Longnose; XH Chassis; Large PP; 10 FP Solid tire; Driver, 2x Gunner. 2x RR [HEAT or HESH ammo] (linked) [F]; 2x Ext. Mag [RR: HEAT or HESH ammo] [1 ea. RR]; 2x Mag. Switch [1 ea. RR]. IFE; LB; Ext. Dr. Cont.; Windjammer; 3x HRTC [1 ea. crew]; Radar; Radar Det.; LD Radio. LR Metal/FP Plastic Armor: F, L, R: 10/10; B: 6/10; T: 8/10; U0/30. 6x 10-pt FPWG; 6x 10-pt FPWH; 10 pts. Windjammer armor. Acc.: 2.5; TS: 157.5 [unl.]; HC 1. $125,784; 16,170 lbs.

Total tractor/trailer combo: $275,394; 48,465 lbs.

(I couldn't find the "back door" option for 10-wheelers to simulate this, but: I allowed for there to be a "back door" on the tractor, and a "front door" on the trailer, to allow passage of crew between the two. IMSMC: This would add $400 to the package.)
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Old 10-29-2018, 08:33 AM   #19
swordtart
 
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Default Re: What products for a semi?

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LR Metal/FP Plastic Armor: F, L, R: 10/10; B: 6/10; T: 8/10; U0/30.
Yikes. Don't take this onto any rough roads (and they are all rough roads).

I'd loose the windjammer (or armour at least), it's just one more thing to get damaged and it diminishes your main armour budget. PU's are cheap, armour repairs are expensive and take time. If you had lost 3 points of 40 you might risk it. With so few points of armour you are going to have to make repairs as soon as you suffer any damage.

Front arcs on rigs are pathetic, you are better relying on your trailer front turret. Your best front facing weapon is bumper spikes as D6 x DM will destroy most things that can be destroyed by twin RR's.

Bob-tailing is a unnecessarily dangerous activity in CW but if you can't bear to have your tractor unarmed don't delude yourself that the tractor will be offensively useful with just front weaponry. If you are in that situation then your back armour is available to target and will be ripped through by even a basic 2D weapon (and serious truck hunters don't use basic 2d weapons). If you must, carry some MML's to deter pedestrian road blocks, or better just pay the $100-$1000 toll. In my experience it is usually far less than the costs of replenishing ammunition and repairing the damage suffered trying to avoid it (and that is how the road blockers calcuate the right rate to charge).

I wouldn't bother with gunners in the tractor (or their computers), they can go in the trailer where there is more space and weight for them. You might want a back-up driver in a gunner's seat for flexibility, but if you put FP CA round the drivers compartment and give him IBA you probably won't need one. You will then also have several hundred pounds to add some more plastic armour.

Loose the LB as if your plant is dead then so are you (you will have been breached and rolling to a stop). If it is there for the increased your mileage range if you are using radar the whole time you would be better off by recharging more frequently at minimal cost and putting FP CA round the plant instead.

Given you have FP armour you are really only going to burn from internal hits. You would be better using the weight dedicated to fire prevention on reducing the chance of internal hits in the first place (i.e. 9 points more armour?).

If you are paranoid about fire, for the weight of a FE and LB you could instead have a dedicated passenger firefighter in the cab with a PFE* and FP suit (in addition to the back-up driver and the driver having one). Each gets to roll seperately which makes your chance of extinguishing better than the FE (70% vs 50%). If you give everyone but the driver a vehicle affecting weapon (AVR, AR or even SMG) plus paint grenades you also gain some side arc fire support (and if you have a passenger they may as well be a Hangunner-2 passenger). This weighs overall a bit more than the FE & LB, but it adds a great deal of extra flexibility.

Note that you could loose the FE & LB in the trailer as well and give every gunner a PFE. In this case though the weight impact isn't as great so you might as keep the FE and give everyone a PFE as well (increasing the chance to put out the fire from 50% to 97% if 7 gunners each have a go).

*I can't recall if the PFE is one-handed or not. If so, under the extended personal carrying capacity rules you could put it into ABV and you wouldn't need to expend a firing action to ready it, making it as quick as a FE in all circumstances.
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Old 11-14-2018, 08:31 PM   #20
dannybhoy
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Default Re: What products for a semi?

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Originally Posted by 43Supporter View Post
And here's a tractor for the beast :) :

Sleeper Longnose; XH Chassis; Large PP; 10 FP Solid tire; Driver, 2x Gunner. 2x RR [HEAT or HESH ammo] (linked) [F]; 2x Ext. Mag [RR: HEAT or HESH ammo] [1 ea. RR]; 2x Mag. Switch [1 ea. RR]. IFE; LB; Ext. Dr. Cont.; Windjammer; 3x HRTC [1 ea. crew]; Radar; Radar Det.; LD Radio. LR Metal/FP Plastic Armor: F, L, R: 10/10; B: 6/10; T: 8/10; U0/30. 6x 10-pt FPWG; 6x 10-pt FPWH; 10 pts. Windjammer armor. Acc.: 2.5; TS: 157.5 [unl.]; HC 1. $125,784; 16,170 lbs.
Sorry to hijack this, but does anyone have updated stats on the Windjammer?

The fuel economy savings listed in UACFH and CWC seem to be from the original advert in ADQ 5/1 back when all PPs including truck had only 200 power units instead of the current PP space x 50. Don't get me wrong, it's nice to get 800 miles per charge for super PPs on cruising speed but I'm sure that's not what was intended.

And how does this work for gas engine mileage?
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