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Old 07-30-2015, 03:59 PM   #51
Flyndaran
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Default Re: Social Vulnerability: Daddy Issues (?)

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Without behaviour, a belief is nothing at all. Not a Delusion, not a quirk. If you have a belief that those around in general regard as insane, it qualifies as a Delusion regardless of its truth or falsity...but only if you take insane action because of it.
Merely talking about certain delusional beliefs is itself not insane. People have made money writing books about their experiences; abducted by aliens, seeing Bigfoot, Loch Ness monster, etc. But as they never actually do anything batty, no one wants to stick them in institutions or restrict their freedoms.

I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's personal belief. I tried to use real world examples that I hope few if any here hold.
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Old 07-30-2015, 04:22 PM   #52
Lia Valenth
 
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Default Re: Social Vulnerability: Daddy Issues (?)

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Without behaviour, a belief is nothing at all. Not a Delusion, not a quirk. If you have a belief that those around in general regard as insane, it qualifies as a Delusion regardless of its truth or falsity...but only if you take insane action because of it.
Merely talking about certain delusional beliefs is itself not insane. People have made money writing books about their experiences; abducted by aliens, seeing Bigfoot, Loch Ness monster, etc. But as they never actually do anything batty, no one wants to stick them in institutions or restrict their freedoms.

I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's personal belief. I tried to use real world examples that I hope few if any here hold.
I think your both arguing the same point, or close enough that semantics are all that matters. Delusions in the Basic Set have a purely social mechanical effect, so their price is based on people perceiving you as insane, not on your being insane. My problem with this is it is classified as a Mental disadvantage, but the only penalty is social. I think it should be classified as Social disadvantage for clarity.

If your Delusions cause effects outside the social ones you should buy additional disadvantages to show this. For example, while some people make money off books on their close encounter, others lose their jobs, spend all their time trying to prove aliens, and become more and more paranoid.

In either case you would have Delusion (abducted by aliens).
The writer would have Delusion (abducted by aliens) [-5] at worst, as non-believers would think you weird, but you would have little other effect.
The other person would have Delusion (abducted by aliens) [-15] along with lower Status, Wealth, gaining Paranoia [-10] and Obsession (Prove aliens exist) [-10]

As such, getting back to the topic at hand, depending on how obvious the daddy issues are and how it makes you act, and others react to you, it could be worth any value as a delusion. This part would probably be [-1] or [-5] though. The other parts could be more severe.
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Old 07-30-2015, 04:39 PM   #53
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Social Vulnerability: Daddy Issues (?)

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Originally Posted by Lia Valenth View Post
I think your both arguing the same point, or close enough that semantics are all that matters. Delusions in the Basic Set have a purely social mechanical effect, so their price is based on people perceiving you as insane, not on your being insane. My problem with this is it is classified as a Mental disadvantage, but the only penalty is social. I
Well no. That's not true. Delusions do also require you to do stupid things like spooning ice cream into computers, trusting strange old men, or stabbing people in the buttocks to find out if they're robot infiltrators. They're rated according to how stupid you get in response to them.
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Old 07-30-2015, 04:48 PM   #54
Lia Valenth
 
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Default Re: Social Vulnerability: Daddy Issues (?)

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Well no. That's not true. Delusions do also require you to do stupid things like spooning ice cream into computers, trusting strange old men, or stabbing people in the buttocks to find out if they're robot infiltrators. They're rated according to how stupid you get in response to them.
I apologize, I do not understand your point. The reaction to your behavior is the penalty for Delusions. Are you saying;
Delusions are Mental disadvantages because it effects behavior?
That you have to behave, "stupidly" for it to qualify?
That delusions have a value based on what they are not how much they effect you?
or something else entirely?
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Last edited by Lia Valenth; 07-30-2015 at 04:48 PM. Reason: spelling error
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Old 07-30-2015, 05:08 PM   #55
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Social Vulnerability: Daddy Issues (?)

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Originally Posted by Lia Valenth View Post
I apologize, I do not understand your point. The reaction to your behavior is the penalty for Delusions. Are you saying;
Delusions are Mental disadvantages because it effects behavior?
That you have to behave, "stupidly" for it to qualify?
That delusions have a value based on what they are not how much they effect you?
or something else entirely?
Delusions are Mental disadvantages because they affect behaviour. The reaction roll penalties are just when people notice that your behaviour is demonstrating that you are nuts.
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Old 07-30-2015, 05:29 PM   #56
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Default Re: Social Vulnerability: Daddy Issues (?)

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Delusions are Mental disadvantages because they affect behaviour. The reaction roll penalties are just when people notice that your behaviour is demonstrating that you are nuts.
It's a bit awkward, in that they're priced the same as OPH which don't require you to be, well, delusional...
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Old 07-30-2015, 05:31 PM   #57
Lia Valenth
 
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Default Re: Social Vulnerability: Daddy Issues (?)

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Delusions are Mental disadvantages because they affect behavior. The reaction roll penalties are just when people notice that your behavior is demonstrating that you are nuts.
True. The explanation is definitely mental. However, there is no mechanical mental effect. I will consider it social because the mechanics are social. The reason behind the mechanics have never been how I classify advantages/disadvantages.

I classify them on the affect they have, this may be incorrect, but it makes more sense in my mind. More importantly though, it does not really matter for this discussion, so I will concede the point.
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Old 07-30-2015, 05:46 PM   #58
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Default Re: Social Vulnerability: Daddy Issues (?)

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Originally Posted by Lia Valenth View Post
True. The explanation is definitely mental. However, there is no mechanical mental effect. I will consider it social because the mechanics are social.
Mental disadvantages come with you when you swap your mind to a new body.

Physical disadvantages are left behind when you swap your mind to a new body.

Social disadvantages are picked up by people impersonating you successfully, and lost when you impersonate someone else. Impersonating someone doesn't remove your mental disadvantages or physical disadvantages, and those disads can make it hard to impersonate someone.

Delusions come with your mind, they're Mental disads.
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Old 07-30-2015, 10:53 PM   #59
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Social Vulnerability: Daddy Issues (?)

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It's a bit awkward, in that they're priced the same as OPH which don't require you to be, well, delusional...
The difference is that the OPH is something people can't fail to notice if they spend any time in your company. You can know someone with a Delusion for quite a long time before you realize that they think that aliens abduct them every Tuesday night.
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Old 07-31-2015, 10:31 AM   #60
Ulzgoroth
 
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Default Re: Social Vulnerability: Daddy Issues (?)

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True. The explanation is definitely mental. However, there is no mechanical mental effect.
"you must roleplay your belief at all times"

It's not an effect that directly involves any dice rolls or penaltes, but it's basically similar to how many Self-Control Roll disadvantages work. Except that you never get to resist it.

Every level of Delusion points out that the belief affects your behavior. That's not just an explanation for the reaction penalty...
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
The difference is that the OPH is something people can't fail to notice if they spend any time in your company. You can know someone with a Delusion for quite a long time before you realize that they think that aliens abduct them every Tuesday night.
From the text on minor delusions: "anyone around you will soon notice it".

Meanwhile, OPH: Eats Humans is certainly something you might be able to conceal for a while. (Though if you do so successfully long term you should have a Secret instead of an OPH.)
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