Need help... Gamecrafter Talent

[Phantasm]

Working on a character who is a master at game theory and the playing of various games. Unable to find a suitable Talent in print, I came up with the following:

Gamecrafter: Body Language, Carousing, Connoisseur (Games), Current Affairs (Sports), Expert Skill (Game Design), Gambling, Games, Hobby Skill, Mathematics (Statistics), Sports. 10 points per level.

I still feel like I'm missing something, though.

[Refplace]

Write up the fluff blurb that describes the Talent and maybe that will help.

[sir_pudding]

Mechanically you are missing the reaction bonus and optionally alternative benefit.

Skills wise, game theory as a discipline probably should be a skill on its own, either as a Mathematics specialty or an Expert Skill. Economics probably also should be included, as game theory is often applicable to economic problems. I would drop Sports, being good at game theory shouldn't really make you a better Linebacker.

[Daigoro]

You might have to justify why Carousing belongs.

And Hobby Skill isn't a skill of itself.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Mechanically you are missing the reaction bonus and optionally alternative benefit.

Agreed, but those are aspects I always have trouble with.

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Skills wise, game theory as a discipline probably should be a skill on its own, either as a Mathematics specialty or an Expert Skill. Economics probably also should be included, as game theory is often applicable to economic problems. I would drop Sports, being good at game theory shouldn't really make you a better Linebacker.

I do have Expert Skill (Game Design) up there in the list; call it Expert Skill (Game Design Theory) if you wish. :) (There's always someone saying I need to add stuff I already have, so don't feel bad.)

And to be fair I waffled on Sports; the initial version didn't have it, but I got tired of explaining the difference between, f'rex, Games (American Football) and Sports (American Football) (the coaches and referees use the former, the players use the latter) that I just gave up and added it. I can remove it easily without issue.

Originally Posted by Daigoro

You might have to justify why Carousing belongs.

And Hobby Skill isn't a skill of itself.

Carousing was there because most games are a social deal, so I felt knowing how to have fun in the social arena should be covered by it.

As for Hobby Skill, I don't know what I was thinking. A few examples to help narrow it down might work.

And also back to my original question: What did I overlook and not add that should be added? I keep feeling like I missed a crucial skill.

[whswhs]

* I would definitely not include Sports; it's DX-based, whereas nearly all the other skills are IQ-based, and more generally it's just a different kind of thing. There is no reason to suppose that a person who designs new card, board, or roleplaying games will be good at football or tennis.

* Current Events (Sports) IS IQ-based, but I think it's also reaching a bit. Admittedly baseball statistics enthusiasts are a little bit like gamers (see, for example, The Universal Baseball Association, Inc.), but I don't think the general habit of following sports news is positively (or for that matter negatively) correlated with game creation, nor that the skill is of much use for doing so.

* The skill Expert Skill (Game Design) does not seem to be legitimate. By definition, Expert Skills enable you to know things and answer questions, but not to perform practical or creative tasks; and game design is unquestionably a creative task. I also am not clear on what would be the five or ten knowledge-related skills that this expert skill would substitute for. The proper thing for what I think you want to do is Professional Skill (Game Design), I think.

* Conceivably the skill of running games—RPGs specifically—is a new specialty of Group Performance.

* I think a case could be made for including Writing, since you have to record the rules of the game in an intelligible form.

* Within Mathematics, I think game theory is mainly a branch of Mathematics (Pure), though a case could be made for Mathematics (Applied). It's not massive enough to form its own new specialty. It does have applications in economics, but also in evolutionary biology, but I don't think I'd necessarily include Biology in this talent; rather, I'd say that if you take advantage of your bonus in Mathematics you can roll against Mathematics to gain a small bonus to Economics, Biology, or maybe Strategy or some other skill.

[Phantasm]

Hmm... a brief perusal of some files indicates the existence of Professional Skill (Game Designer). I'll be adding that to the Talent.

Current version is:
Gamecrafter: Connoisseur (Games), Current Affairs (Sports), Expert Skill (Game Design Theory), Gambling, Games, Mathematics (Applied and Statistics), Professional Skill (Game Designer). Conditional Bonus to Body Language, Carousing, Computer Programming, and Writing when dealing with making, modifying, and playing games. Reaction Bonus: Gamers, fellow game/sport enthusiasts. 10 points per level. Alternative Cost: 7 points per level.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

Hmm... a brief perusal of some files indicates the existence of Professional Skill (Game Designer). I'll be adding that to the Talent.

Current version is:
Gamecrafter: Connoisseur (Games), Current Affairs (Sports), Expert Skill (Game Design Theory), Gambling, Games, Mathematics (Applied and Statistics), Professional Skill (Game Designer). Conditional Bonus to Body Language, Carousing, Computer Programming, and Writing when dealing with making, modifying, and playing games. Reaction Bonus: Gamers, fellow game/sport enthusiasts. 10 points per level. Alternative Cost: 7 points per level.

I would still get rid of Expert Skill (Game Design Theory). Expert skills aren't about theory; they're about factual knowledge. You could have an expert skill about knowing game rules, I suppose, but that seems more like a Games or Hobby skill; at any rate, I'm not seeing what would be the half dozen or so knowledge-related skills it would sub for, which seems to be how Expert Skill is normally defined.

[Donny Brook]

I think you are straddling two or three somewhat dissimilar concepts. Game theory, game design, and successfully playing games share a pretty small overlap.

I'd build a talent for game theory to include: Economics, Mathematics (Probability), Strategy, Intel Analysis, Psychology, and Philosophy (Logic).

There are others here far more qualified than me to address game design, and IMO games in general are far too diverse for a single talent to represent being good at them in general.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

I do have Expert Skill (Game Design) up there in the list; call it Expert Skill (Game Design Theory) if you wish. :) (There's always someone saying I need to add stuff I already have, so don't feel bad.)

Steve Jackson is a game designer, John Forbes Nash was a mathematician in game theory. These are rather different things.

Originally Posted by whswhs

Within Mathematics, I think game theory is mainly a branch of Mathematics (Pure), though a case could be made for Mathematics (Applied). It's not massive enough to form its own new specialty.

I think it is probably broad enough to be an optional specialty of Mathematics (Pure) and far too broad to qualify for the hyperspecialization perk (something like the prisoners dilemma or Nash equilibria might though).

It does have applications in economics, but also in evolutionary biology, but I don't think I'd necessarily include Biology in this talent; rather, I'd say that if you take advantage of your bonus in Mathematics you can roll against Mathematics to gain a small bonus to Economics, Biology, or maybe Strategy or some other skill.

That sound like a good candidate for an alternative benefit.