12-14-2017, 05:42 PM | #81 |
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Re: Gm limiting necromancy
I think that's a GM decision. Personally I think the idea of always using All Out for attack or defence is a good one, it fits the idea of these things being unsubtle meat machines.
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12-14-2017, 05:48 PM | #82 | |||||
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Gm limiting necromancy
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Last edited by sir_pudding; 12-14-2017 at 06:04 PM. |
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12-14-2017, 06:28 PM | #83 |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Gm limiting necromancy
A Perk. Basically a Rules Exemption Perk meaning that all of your orders to magical servitors are free of forseeable errors.
Among other things you never tell the genie to make you a milkshake.
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12-14-2017, 07:36 PM | #84 | ||
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Gm limiting necromancy
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Although this won't help if your magical servitors aren't capable of comprehending any extremely basic battlefield tactics at all. Natural language programming only works if the automaton has a cognitive framework that allows it parse the commands at all. A robot weapon system that can understand conversational English but can't do edge detection or object discrimination at all isn't going to be able to execute your orders to target the enemy gun emplacements (without grid coordinates or something anyway) even if it understands the words. Which is why I think we can assume that servitor undead do have this capability and they really don't have traits that say they shouldn't. Tactics-2 probably doesn't mean this but it might mean that they aren't really good at it. Mechanically you could handle this by making a Tactics roll for the necromancer (probably + any Necromancer Talent or similar) with a SSR penalty based on the number of undead being commanded when giving orders with MoF equalling turns in which a zombie in a critical position takes Do Nothing instead of a useful manuever. If you were looking to nerf necromantic C3. Note this also encourages a chain of command and sapient small unit leaders in your Army of Darkness. Quote:
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12-14-2017, 07:42 PM | #85 |
Hero of Democracy
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
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Re: Gm limiting necromancy
It should be remembered that the "zombie" spell does not create modern apocalypse zombies. It creates undead servitors. They should be sufficient not only to fill out the ranks of a necromancer's zombies but also his skeletons. These servants have the ability to pour glasses of wine, restrain foes instead of killing them, and deliver messages.
What they don't have is the ability to make decisions for themselves, or get out of unforeseen situations. For example, if they're told not to chase intruders out of sight of their crypt, clever intruders might set up just outside the limit, and bait the minions again and again in order to destroy them
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12-14-2017, 11:54 PM | #86 | ||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Gm limiting necromancy
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TBH with a IQ8 I think these zombies are actually not going to be as limited as some posts suggest. *something I think reprogrammable etc helps with Last edited by Tomsdad; 12-15-2017 at 12:11 AM. |
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12-15-2017, 12:42 AM | #87 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Gm limiting necromancy
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Sure, that's fine. Based on. But for game balance reasons, there is absolutely no chance that anyone is getting a 500 point combat monster as a permanent servant for 8 FP just by a quick casting of Zombie on a royal guard, barbarian champion or master assassin. I'm not saying that it should be impossible to make undead servants who still have and/or remember their 100+ points in physical Attributes, 50-100 points in physical Advantages and DX+4 to DX+6 skill with all weapons, not to mention a lot of other DX-based skills, like Acrobatics, Climbing, Jumping, Stealth, etc. It should just cost more than 8 FP and maybe take more than 1 minute. When looking at game balance, we ought to compare the effectiveness to spells that summon elementals or demons. Those cost FP proportional with point value and certainly don't allow permanent ST 16; DX 14; IQ 8; HT 13 servitors with Weapon Master and skill 20 or so with several weapons just because you spent 8 FP on animating the DF-esque Knight from the rival adventuring party. From a setting point of view, having a high skill level is a matter of the interplay of many things; memory, instinct, experience, muscle memory, reasoning and more. Even DX-based skills have a mental component, as evidenced by the fact that skills can float between Attributes. All of which is to say that I think that the basic 8 FP investment in the Zombie spell ought to bring back no more than an animated corpse without any memories of their life and, thus, no skills. More involved rituals, probably costing more FP proportionally with how much of the dead person comes back (+1 FP per 10 points or so), could then make skeletal archers, zombie swordmasters and other scary undead.
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12-15-2017, 01:15 AM | #88 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Gm limiting necromancy
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On the hard and fast mental skill ban and high weapon skills include mental aspects argument. I'm not sure, since all skills can in theory be floated between all stats thats really an argument that in abstract can be used to allow or deny everything. Also while I'd happily say a high combat skill isn't just muscle memory but involves some intelligence, these zombies are IQ8 that's not that dumb. It's well over learned tool use levels. In general mental ability terms the listing of them in zombies points out they can still talk! TBH "no mental skills" is being used a lot here to deny ability to IQ8 (or IQ10 if you embalm them) zombies. Thing is a lot of out-of-game appeals to reality justifications regarding the mental/physical split are being used to do this, but "mental skills" in the context of the zombie write up is a game abstraction. Now I agree you are right this is a matter of personal interpretation, but to me it seems it's more "your no longer very good at chemistry" not "you can no longer do anything that previously required neurons and synapses to fire in your brain" *probably some kind of skill limit, or a FP multiplier on CP totals over certain amount. (basically the kind of thing you mentioned) Last edited by Tomsdad; 12-15-2017 at 02:33 AM. |
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12-15-2017, 01:30 AM | #89 |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Gm limiting necromancy
As flavour, I'd also rule that embalming and/or a similarly time-consuming skilled preparation was absolutely necessary if you had a fine, elegant body, with sinous elegance and perfect health, and you wanted to make use of these Attributes for your re-animated corpse.*
Basically, if you want a cheap corpse that rises in combat and attacks your foes, cast Zombie as written. Hell, I'd allow a 10 sec. Casting Time version that gives a -2 DX and an extra -2 IQ (total -4 IQ) version with absolutely no skills.** But if you want to re-animate an awesome physical specimen and/or a highly skilled character, you'd best be prepared to get busy with Professional Skill (Mortician) or some equivalent and then cast your Zombie spell as a ritual, with the FP cost scaling not only for template cost, but for the point value of the finished undead. *I'd use this in preference to the rules for 'Prepared Corpses' rules on p. 134 in GURPS Zombies. **This should cost just 4 FP according to the scaled Cost table on GURPS Zombies p. 133, but I'd consider dropping the Casting Time fair trade for effectively doubling the FP cost, up to the same as a regular casting.
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12-15-2017, 02:31 AM | #90 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Gm limiting necromancy
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