12-12-2009, 12:17 AM | #41 | ||
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
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Oooh. A difference is on the other end. A son thinks "my father got himself killed", but if the restored backup is notified right away of what happened, it may think "I got myself killed." Technically inaccurate, yet natural. Father and son are different people, but the dead 'me' is everything I am and more, apart from the few moments I've had since restoration. Quote:
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12-12-2009, 01:14 AM | #42 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
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Hmmm. You know about the transgender phenomenon, where some people in male bodies feel totally convinced that those bodies are anatomically wrong and that they really are female, and vice versa the other way? I wonder if there might be people who had a deep inner conviction that a digital ghost would be them, and others who had a deep inner conviction that a digital ghost was only a reproduction of them and that uploading was a form of suicide? For the latter, uploading might be contraindicated, in a way analogous to the contraindication of transsexual surgery for, say, transvestites who don't really have sex/gender incompatibility: "Believing what you do, you would be profoundly unhappy after uploading, in a way that we can't repair." Hmmm. What if it were possible to establish real-time interaction between an organic brain and a digital ghost emulation of it? To guarantee a unique linkage, you might use quantum communication. Perhaps a quantum channel could be what was needed to enable the actual locus of self-awareness to migrate. Bill Stoddard |
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12-12-2009, 01:59 AM | #43 |
Untagged
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
I would accept removal and replacement of computer parts of my brain when under nanostasis, as long as I am awakened after each procedure. The me that exists after the last organic bit is replaced would be the same as I am now, in my opinion.
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12-12-2009, 11:26 PM | #44 |
Computer Scientist
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas, Texas
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
That sort of progressive brain peel ought to be doable in TS, but the repeated nanostasis would make it risky and (more) horrendously expensive. Maybe by 2105 or so....
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12-13-2009, 12:01 AM | #45 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
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Bill Stoddard |
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12-13-2009, 12:26 PM | #46 | ||||||
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Is Transhuman Space a "silly" genre?
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A former colleague of mine suffered a traumatic brain injury a number of years ago. As a result he lost the ability to retain long term memories and cannot recall anything after a half hour or so before the incident (a similar injury is depicted in the film 50 First Dates). Such injuries are apparently not uncommon and many people who have suffered trauma are unable to remember the incident itself. If a continuity of memory is required for identity is my former brother in arms the same person that he was before the trauma? For that matter was my maternal grandmother the same person she was before the dementia completely destroyed her memories? Quote:
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It's interesting to me that SAIs (and informorphs in general) seem to generally accept this. They seem to be quite happy with deleting themselves when they "move" from shell to shell. Quote:
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It doesn't mean a dog doesn't have a worldview either. Dogs definitely have an internal model of how they relate to different individuals whom they recognize and to their environment. They are capable of taking actions in order to produce an expected outcome. How is that not at least a rudimentary worldview? If it isn't I'm not sure you could demonstrate that humans have a worldview either. |
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12-13-2009, 01:57 PM | #47 | |
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Re: Is Transhuman Space a "silly" genre?
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b) Greed. Everybody who hopes to ever inherit anything and every state that charges inheritance tax has an interest in treating it as death, plus the creation of somebody new. |
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12-13-2009, 02:20 PM | #48 |
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
Bill, would it be wholly inaccurate to say that ghosting tech makes it possible for a person to become a Platonic ideal of themself, from which variously-divergent instances of that ideal could be derived (and to which they could be compared)?
You suggested before that someone whose viewpoint terminates due to death and is replaced by a previously-uploaded copy does something similar to leaving a family business to an heir. I think this is a poor analogy. Sons and daughters are not really so much like their parents. You have no way of knowing that your offspring would run the business the way you have. But a ghost has your values, your work ethic, your business sense, your experience, and so forth. Assuming it's not tampered with - and let's not muddy these waters with that possibility - it can be trusted to do what you would do, because the unique combination of traits that define you can be recorded, stored, and reinstanced. |
12-13-2009, 03:10 PM | #49 | |
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
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Re: Is Transhuman Space a "silly" genre?
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Traumatic brain injuries, strokes, dementia, etc., all kill the identity of the person, even if the fact the body is still animated makes it hard for us to mourn and move on. As for why TS is a silly genre, it's basically a high fantasy magic setting where instead of mana, psionics or gods there's "technology" to explain away the magic, but what makes it truly silly is that it's in denial about being high fantasy... |
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12-13-2009, 03:31 PM | #50 | |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Is Transhuman Space a "silly" genre?
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I personally don't presume to know. I do think that our sense of self is much more illusionary than we care to admit. |
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