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Old 03-12-2015, 09:04 AM   #1
sclose1970
 
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Default [SE] Cutting Out technique

The prerequisites for the Cutting Out technique (SE pg81) list "any Per-based social interaction skill." AFAIK the only Per-based social interaction skills are Body Language and Detect Lies. Is this technique intended to be allowed for only those two skills, or could one learn it for other social interaction skills that have been floated to Per(i.e. a Per-based Diplomacy roll?)
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Old 03-12-2015, 10:00 AM   #2
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Default Re: [SE] Cutting Out technique

It reads to me like your first suggestion, but I could be wrong. Maybe Bill can clarify his intent?
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Old 03-12-2015, 11:37 AM   #3
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Default Re: [SE] Cutting Out technique

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Originally Posted by sclose1970 View Post
The prerequisites for the Cutting Out technique (SE pg81) list "any Per-based social interaction skill." AFAIK the only Per-based social interaction skills are Body Language and Detect Lies. Is this technique intended to be allowed for only those two skills, or could one learn it for other social interaction skills that have been floated to Per(i.e. a Per-based Diplomacy roll?)
The latter. See the detailed rules on p. 25; the intent is that you can use Cutting Out with any Influence skill -- or even a not-quite-Influence skill like Carousing or Administration -- floated over to Per. This takes a -4, which can be bought off with the Cutting Out technique.

It's just important that we state the "Per-based" part, because that's what the technique is bought up from.

Remember that every single skill in GURPS can be floated to another attribute where that makes sense. So if you have Intimidation, you also have Per-based Intimidation (and DX-based Intimidation, HT-based Intimidation, and so on).
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Old 03-12-2015, 12:45 PM   #4
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Default Re: [SE] Cutting Out technique

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The latter. See the detailed rules on p. 25; the intent is that you can use Cutting Out with any Influence skill -- or even a not-quite-Influence skill like Carousing or Administration -- floated over to Per. This takes a -4, which can be bought off with the Cutting Out technique.

It's just important that we state the "Per-based" part, because that's what the technique is bought up from.

Remember that every single skill in GURPS can be floated to another attribute where that makes sense. So if you have Intimidation, you also have Per-based Intimidation (and DX-based Intimidation, HT-based Intimidation, and so on).
Interestingly, I just re-read the relevant section Approachability says to make a straight Per-based skill roll, rather than at a -4, if I'm reading it correctly. Is this errata?
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Old 03-12-2015, 01:35 PM   #5
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Default Re: [SE] Cutting Out technique

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Interestingly, I just re-read the relevant section Approachability says to make a straight Per-based skill roll, rather than at a -4, if I'm reading it correctly. Is this errata?
No, it's not. Approachability specifies that you can't use it to single one person out of a tight-knit small group, as they will all have the same reaction. Cutting Out bypasses this limit, letting you single out one particular person as the one who can be detached from the group—the teacher calling on one student, the sergeant glaring at one recruit, the flirt catching the eye of one potential target. This is a harder task and is done at -4.
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Old 03-12-2015, 02:11 PM   #6
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Default Re: [SE] Cutting Out technique

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So if you have Intimidation, you also have Per-based Intimidation ...
HOW DOES THAT EVEN WORK?

Do you 'spot him so hard' the enemy surrenders? /mindboogle






PS: I get the idea, but that one example really makes my head spin trying to find a use.
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Old 03-12-2015, 02:18 PM   #7
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Default Re: [SE] Cutting Out technique

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HOW DOES THAT EVEN WORK?

Do you 'spot him so hard' the enemy surrenders?
You pick out the one guy in a close-knit group who's a little more vulnerable to intimidation. You try to intimidate him, at +1 to your Intimidation roll. This doesn't intimidate his mates.
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Old 03-12-2015, 02:39 PM   #8
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Default Re: [SE] Cutting Out technique

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No, it's not. Approachability specifies that you can't use it to single one person out of a tight-knit small group, as they will all have the same reaction. Cutting Out bypasses this limit, letting you single out one particular person as the one who can be detached from the group—the teacher calling on one student, the sergeant glaring at one recruit, the flirt catching the eye of one potential target. This is a harder task and is done at -4.
Ok, I think I understand that section better now. The unmodified Per-based roll would be used for large groups, where it's a "target rich" environment, and Cutting Out would be used when there's a small group where you would like to be able to select the person easiest to influence, correct?

Are there any guidelines for deciding when a group should be labeled small or large?

Additionally, in the Influence Skills section, it mentions the GM including a negative modifier for inappropriate Influence skill usage. For a character with multiple Influence skills, would making a similar Per-based skill roll help the character to decide which skill would be most well-received by in a certain situation, or would this be covered better by the mechanics in the Motivation section?
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Old 03-12-2015, 04:18 PM   #9
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Default Re: [SE] Cutting Out technique

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Ok, I think I understand that section better now. The unmodified Per-based roll would be used for large groups, where it's a "target rich" environment, and Cutting Out would be used when there's a small group where you would like to be able to select the person easiest to influence, correct?

Are there any guidelines for deciding when a group should be labeled small or large?
Are they interacting strongly with each other, to the point where it's hard to break in? Do they have a strong sense of group identity such that they will tend all to respond the same way?

Quote:
Additionally, in the Influence Skills section, it mentions the GM including a negative modifier for inappropriate Influence skill usage. For a character with multiple Influence skills, would making a similar Per-based skill roll help the character to decide which skill would be most well-received by in a certain situation, or would this be covered better by the mechanics in the Motivation section?
I think that's probably a matter for Cultural Familiarity, or perhaps a Common Sense roll vs. IQ. It doesn't seem like it should require an actual skill to recognize that a skill isn't appropriate. Note that a persistent habit of using a particular Influence skill even when it's unsuitable is a quirk, worth -1 point.
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Old 03-12-2015, 04:23 PM   #10
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Default Re: [SE] Cutting Out technique

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
HOW DOES THAT EVEN WORK?

Do you 'spot him so hard' the enemy surrenders? /mindboogle






PS: I get the idea, but that one example really makes my head spin trying to find a use.
Floating skills is often used to cover activities other than a skill's central function that fit under the skill but don't fit the attribute the skill is attached to, rather than to cover somehow performing the core functionality of the skill in a wildly different manner from the usual.

IQ-based Guns comes up a lot, and it's not to shoot people by thinking really hard about it.
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