Problem with Stealth?

[cupbearer]

hi

okay, so the game says you don't roll perception to contest stealth unless you were actively on guard for someone sneaking around (sentry post, party on camp watch etc).

Problem 1:
Guy with stealth 10 versus sentry with perception 8 is has a better chance of sneaking if there is someone on guard duty then if not. this is really weird.

Problem 2:
I notice things by accident in real life all the time, i feel like people who are more perceptive will have a better chance at passively noticing things, and yet, by the rules your perception is irrelevant unless you specify you are watching out for stuff. It seems illogical.

Can someone rationalize or explain something that i might be missing here? are there different modifiers that apply if there is no contest vs. contest? if so what are they?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by cupbearer

hi

okay, so the game says you don't roll perception to contest stealth unless you were actively on guard for someone sneaking around (sentry post, party on camp watch etc).

Problem 1:
Guy with stealth 10 versus sentry with perception 8 is has a better chance of sneaking if there is someone on guard duty then if not. this is really weird.

Problem 2:
I notice things by accident in real life all the time, i feel like people who are more perceptive will have a better chance at passively noticing things, and yet, by the rules your perception is irrelevant unless you specify you are watching out for stuff. It seems illogical.

Can someone rationalize or explain something that i might be missing here? are there different modifiers that apply if there is no contest vs. contest? if so what are they?

The contested stealth roll only happens if the intruder successfully rolled stealth in the first place. Otherwise they get a passive perception roll with a bonus equal to the amount by which the intruder failed.

[GWJ]

Yeah, I have problem with that too. Especially with creatures with good hearing but not actively on guard (house cat or dog for example).

[cupbearer]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

The contested stealth roll only happens if the intruder successfully rolled stealth in the first place. Otherwise they get a passive perception roll with a bonus equal to the amount by which the intruder failed.

Can you show me where it says that is the case? I do not believe i have seen such rules.

[cupbearer]

Originally Posted by GWJ

Yeah, I have problem with that too. Especially with creatures with good hearing but not actively on guard (house cat or dog for example).

This could be mitigated by saying that animals are always on guard (or that maybe just guard dogs are on guard), furthermore the stealth is penalized by disciminatory smell so it is more likely certain animals will find you.

but yeah i agree. if you are stalking an animal it doesn't how good that animal is at noticing things unless you interpret it as per above.

Oliver.

[GWJ]

Originally Posted by cupbearer

This could be mitigated by saying that animals are always on guard (or that maybe just guard dogs are on guard), furthermore the stealth is penalized by disciminatory smell so it is more likely certain animals will find you.

but yeah i agree. if you are stalking an animal it doesn't how good that animal is at noticing things unless you interpret it as per above.

Oliver.

An animal is just an example. It could be just human with good hearing - it should be harder to sneak to him even if he's not on alert at the moment. This is one of the main issues I have with GURPS

[Stormcrow]

When it's not a contest, the Stealth roll is about whether you successfully make yourself quiet or invisible, not whether you avoid being noticed. To use Stealth to avoid a passive potential observer, the GM can simply add a modifier representing any unusual Perception. Say, Perception 10 is no modifier, and go from there.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by cupbearer

Can you show me where it says that is the case? I do not believe i have seen such rules.

If you haven't succeeded in stealth, there's nothing to contest. You're just making noise and failing to conceal yourself and it's up to them to notice or not.

[Ulzgoroth]

I would never ever use an uncontested Stealth roll. Doesn't make any sense to me.

Slap a penalty on notice rolls for inattentive observers and it should be fine.

Not claiming this is as-written.

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

If you haven't succeeded in stealth, there's nothing to contest. You're just making noise and failing to conceal yourself and it's up to them to notice or not.

That's not how contests normally work, and it's hard to see whey it should suddenly be how it works here.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

The contested stealth roll only happens if the intruder successfully rolled stealth in the first place. Otherwise they get a passive perception roll with a bonus equal to the amount by which the intruder failed.

Exactly this.

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

If you haven't succeeded in stealth, there's nothing to contest. You're just making noise and failing to conceal yourself and it's up to them to notice or not.

Yup, that's how I've always run it.