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Old 11-04-2015, 12:54 PM   #11
reddir
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Default Re: [New Release] GURPS Social Engineering: Back to School

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
You'll get more response from the thread in the main GURPS forum, here. This forum is fairly low-traffic.
Ah, I didn't realize which forum this was! I did a search for "Back to School" on gurps forums with Google and this was the first link. I'll check the usual thread there too, thank you for the link.
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Old 11-04-2015, 04:46 PM   #12
johndallman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default Re: [New Release] GURPS Social Engineering: Back to School

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Originally Posted by reddir View Post
II was hoping for some happy medium, something fun that allows timely character ability changes but without the meta-game of session CP.
Having played a different RPG that did not allow for any form of earned experience through adventuring or successful use of skills, but only for advancement through expensive training, I definitely recommend that you don't go that route. I found it no fun at all, as someone who's learned a lot of his own skills by doing things; the author worked for a company where training was everything, and experience was little valued.

It is workable to require session CP to only be spent on improving abilities that were used in the session, although it tends to require a fair mount of book-keeping as a character gradually accumulates enough points in a skill to raise it a level.

It is also workable to require some amount of training time per session CP spent, although this should be less than 200 hours. I've had reasonable results with requiring characters to spend 50 hours training each time they bought a new skill with session CP.
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Old 11-04-2015, 05:07 PM   #13
reddir
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Default Re: [New Release] GURPS Social Engineering: Back to School

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
It is workable to require session CP to only be spent on improving abilities that were used in the session...
I thought this was the default? And anyway, it is definitely more immersive to do this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
It is also workable to require some amount of training time per session CP spent, although this should be less than 200 hours. I've had reasonable results with requiring characters to spend 50 hours training each time they bought a new skill with session CP.
This is interesting, and something I hadn't considered. It brings things 'in-game' with the 50 hrs of training, and the meta-game CP keeps things in some kind of check.

---

I am also considering changing the 'hours of learning' to 'uses', in regards to improving abilities. So:
...100 uses during life-or-death combat
...200 uses under the direct supervision of a qualified instructor
...400 uses if trying to improve by practicing exercises from a manual/etc
...800 uses if just doing it over and over again.

Does this seem too easy? 1 CP for this many uses does not seem like very much.
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Old 11-04-2015, 06:00 PM   #14
johndallman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default Re: [New Release] GURPS Social Engineering: Back to School

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Originally Posted by reddir View Post
I thought this was the default?
It is, but a lot of people are looser with it. If two game sessions are, for example, successive game days, it seems harsh to say "no, you can't spend today's CP on skills you used yesterday."

Quote:
I am also considering changing the 'hours of learning' to 'uses', in regards to improving abilities. So:
...100 uses during life-or-death combat
...200 uses under the direct supervision of a qualified instructor
...400 uses if trying to improve by practicing exercises from a manual/etc
...800 uses if just doing it over and over again.

Does this seem too easy? 1 CP for this many uses does not seem like very much.
It seems too hard at the combat end. If I can't improve Guns (Rifle) until I've made 100 attack rolls in real combat ... I have a character in a WWII game who hasn't made many in total across all his firearm skills in 61 scenarios over more that four years game time.
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Old 11-05-2015, 12:55 PM   #15
reddir
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Default Re: [New Release] GURPS Social Engineering: Back to School

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
It seems too hard at the combat end. If I can't improve Guns (Rifle) until I've made 100 attack rolls in real combat ... I have a character in a WWII game who hasn't made many in total across all his firearm skills in 61 scenarios over more that four years game time.
I am surprised. Is this character maybe a sniper character? Or some sort of infiltrator?

If so, then I expect he's used stealth or disguise/bluff skills many many times.

If not...I am stumped.

Non-the-less, he must have spent time practicing?
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Old 11-05-2015, 04:24 PM   #16
johndallman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default Re: [New Release] GURPS Social Engineering: Back to School

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddir View Post
I am surprised. Is this character maybe a sniper character? Or some sort of infiltrator?
Both, at the right times, more often infiltration. However, I really doubt that anyone in the party has made more attacks. This is a fairly realistic campaign with regard to the deadliness of guns: characters who tried doing combat in a dungeon fantasy style would be known as "corpses."
Quote:
If so, then I expect he's used stealth or disguise/bluff skills many many times.
More than attack rolls, but not many hundreds. When failing a stealth roll is likely to get you killed, because the sentries have full-power rifles, you spend a lot of effort minimising your risks and an important part of that is avoiding fights or the risk of them.
Quote:
Nonetheless, he must have spent time practicing?
A lot of time training, in many skills. Practicing skills you already have, no, because GURPS doesn't demand that.
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