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Old 06-28-2019, 01:55 PM   #4211
maximara
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Default Re: New Reality Seeds

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Originally Posted by Astromancer View Post
Try this one...Stalin-2

Stalin worlds are defined by major changes in the live of Josef Stalin. Stalin-2 is somewhat controversial in the list because it diverges with Hitler deciding to play his cards patiently after Munich and give Spain and Italy a chance to rearm. During the waiting period Stalin attacked Poland and Germany on September 1st, 1940.

Hitler's choice to take a breathing spell meant that Italy and Spain could provide some, not much, military aide, and Churchill and FDR were out of the picture. Sure FDR was still in office, but he wasn't running for president.
Why not? In OTL FDR decided to run because of the threat Nazism posed and would view likely see that no matter who won America would be the long term looser. Remember Hitler invaded France May 10, 1940 in OTL and so would be viewed as a great danger and there was the fear that the Nazis would make Wells, World Set Free atomic bombs a reality. I just don't see FDR sitting the 1940 election out.

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Thomas Dewey was determined to leave Europe to it's fate, after all, if either Hitler or Stalin lost that was a good thing. Britain under Lord Halifax simply chose to stay as neutral as possible.
Thomas Dewey's youth, what had happened with France, and the potential Nazi threat to England (the Blitz wouldn't happen until Sept 1940 in OTL) effectively nixed his chances for the 1940 election. If we remove FDR then Wendell Willkie, not Thomas Dewey, would become President in 1941. As a businessman her would be more nervious about the USSR wining the war.

IMHO it is more likely a Uncle Adolf situation would develop as no one would even risk a major communist nation like Russia winning the war.

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The Amer-Japanese war broke Japan and, under Dewey's guidance made America the imperial ruler of East Asia.
Why would Japan attack America? Per Anti-Comintern Pact they would be honor bound to attack Russia. Heck, they could even ask America for aid in that endeavor by ending the oil embargo.

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This world is TL7, but just barely. And Centrum has cut research into areas of science like computers, rocketry, nuclear physics, and genetics, they disapprove of. Still, swagmen are bringing in technical innovations and "funding" scientific research that gives them profitable businesses. These swagmen could ruin the whole parallel for Centrum. How does Homeline deal with these louts?
Why would Centrum cut computer research? It would give the imperialist nations better control over their "colonies". Now limiting computer access would make perfect sense (and was true in OTL for practical reasons) and fits with how Centrum runs their own world.

Last edited by maximara; 06-29-2019 at 02:25 AM.
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Old 06-29-2019, 12:28 PM   #4212
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Default Re: New Reality Seeds

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Why not? In OTL FDR decided to run because of the threat Nazism posed and would view likely see that no matter who won America would be the long term looser. Remember Hitler invaded France May 10, 1940 in OTL and so would be viewed as a great danger and there was the fear that the Nazis would make Wells, World Set Free atomic bombs a reality. I just don't see FDR sitting the 1940 election out.
FDR was deeply committed to fighting fascism, but this whole parallel is based on the "Hitler Bides his Time" scenario. So no one attacks before September 1940. As to FDR going for a third term was a major break with tradition, with Hitler seeming to be appeased, FDR, in this scenario lacks the backing to buck tradition. I also switched out FDR's real 1940 opponent for the more conservative Dewwy. I also put in Lord Halifax.

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Thomas Dewey's youth, what had happened with France, and the potential Nazi threat to England (the Blitz wouldn't happen until Sept 1940 in OTL) effectively nixed his chances for the 1940 election. If we remove FDR then Wendell Willkie, not Thomas Dewey, would become President in 1941. As a businessman her would be more nervious about the USSR wining the war.

IMHO it is more likely a Uncle Adolf situation would develop as no one would even risk a major communist nation like Russia winning the war.
This isn't an "Uncle Adolf" scenario. This is a "Nazis versus Reds" scenario after Sept. 1940. Only one with a nasty outcome, Imperialism thrives. In our real history, Fascism and Imperialism collapsed in the 1940's and Stalinism lingered on. In this world, Fascism and Stalinism go down and Imperialism lingers on.

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Why would Japan attack America? Per Anti-Comintern Pact they would be honor bound to attack Russia. Heck, they could even ask America for aid in that endeavor by ending the oil embargo.
Japan saw Hawaii as a threat to their military control of Asia. China has made similar statements about the presence of Pearl Harbor as being aggressive. No power that wants to control Asia to the exclusion of any other power having a capacity for independent action likes/can tolerate America controlling Hawaii. Pre-WWII Japanese fiction envisioned a Japanese takeover of Hawaii. Modern Chinese fiction often similarly envisions Chinese control of Hawaii. In neither case are those types of fiction translated into English.

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Why would Centrum cut computer research? It would give the imperialist nations better control over their "colonies". Now limiting computer access would make perfect sense (and was true in OTL for practical reasons) and fits with how Centrum runs their own world.
Centrum fears other parallels achieving Panchronomics. Without computers to crunch the numbers, physics slows to a crawl.
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Old 06-29-2019, 07:00 PM   #4213
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Centrum fears other parallels achieving Panchronomics. Without computers to crunch the numbers, physics slows to a crawl.
That is a non sequitur as panchronomics is a superscience discovery that requires going down some really esoteric parts of physics to happen.

As long as Centrum can "direct" research from going down that esoteric route it doesn't matter how advanced the computers are.

In fact, "Centrum’s primary goal is always to attain a level of influence sufficient to block the development of parachronics." (Infinite Worlds 52).

So they can direct any computer aided research down some other paths that would make going for parachronics unlikely. For example, given FTL and parachronics seem exclusive to each sending the reality down the Star Trek route makes sense.

More over "It is important to note that Centrum has no general policy of secrecy about parachronics." In fact, Centrum has revealed its existence (and the general knowledge of parachronics) to at least two worlds. Admittedly those worlds are not at the TL7+ thought to be needed for parachronics.
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Old 07-01-2019, 08:43 AM   #4214
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That is a non sequitur as panchronomics is a superscience discovery that requires going down some really esoteric parts of physics to happen.

As long as Centrum can "direct" research from going down that esoteric route it doesn't matter how advanced the computers are.
But without computers the math work needed for those esoteric aspects of physics to be convincingly researched is much harder and hiring the "Computers" i.e. people who can do the math well and quickly, once a vital job, is expensive.

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In fact, "Centrum’s primary goal is always to attain a level of influence sufficient to block the development of parachronics." (Infinite Worlds 52).
Yes I know, I've been a GURPS guy since I brought the first edition of GURPS:Swashbucklers when it first cam out. How I adore you telling me things I read decades ago.

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So they can direct any computer aided research down some other paths that would make going for parachronics unlikely. For example, given FTL and parachronics seem exclusive to each sending the reality down the Star Trek route makes sense.

More over "It is important to note that Centrum has no general policy of secrecy about parachronics." In fact, Centrum has revealed its existence (and the general knowledge of parachronics) to at least two worlds. Admittedly those worlds are not at the TL7+ thought to be needed for parachronics.
But they also make it clear that as much as Centrum likes a scientific worldview they dislike periods of rapid and revolutionary scientific and technological advance. As much for a dislike of radical creative thought as for fear of other worlds learning the secret.
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Old 07-01-2019, 11:53 AM   #4215
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Try this...

Al-Mansur-3

The Al-Mansur tag designates either parallels were major changes in 16th century Morocco or Changes in Elizabethan English diplomacy with the Islamic world (both tied together) went differently. On Al-Mansur-3 Ahmad-al-Mansur both lived longer and his proposal to attack the Spanish in the Caribbean and take colonies went down well. Elizabeth Tudor seems to have lived a longer healthier life as well. Britain takes and holds Jamaica, but the real change point is the fact that and Anglo-Moroccan fleet took Barbados. It was luck, and the fact that al-Mansur chose to keep this island was very lucky for his goals.

Barbados is a tricky island to take with a Sail Navy. The winds are almost never favorable for attack. Once the Moroccans had the island, they had a foothold. Al-Mansur wanted to take South America from Spain and then retake Al-Andalus. Barbados gave him a chance to attack Spain's treasure house and settle in it.

The local year is 1830. The area called the Guianas in most worlds is New Al-Andalus in this world. It is a major focus of migration from the Arab lands. The new Latin American Republics and the Moroccan settlements are involved in a constant low level conflict. Jihad versus Reconquista, and the native tribes people do what they can to establish their rights.

Basically, a crossover of Swashbucklers and Old West with loads of Arabian Nights and Cliffhangers flare. Pirate Ships, raids through the jungles, spies, and darrng-do. Yankee Filabusterers can get into the act too. Bring your sword, pistols, and Bowie Knife!
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Old 07-01-2019, 12:59 PM   #4216
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Default Re: New Reality Seeds

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That is a non sequitur as panchronomics is a superscience discovery that requires going down some really esoteric parts of physics to happen.

As long as Centrum can "direct" research from going down that esoteric route it doesn't matter how advanced the computers are.

In fact, "Centrum’s primary goal is always to attain a level of influence sufficient to block the development of parachronics." (Infinite Worlds 52).

So they can direct any computer aided research down some other paths that would make going for parachronics unlikely. For example, given FTL and parachronics seem exclusive to each sending the reality down the Star Trek route makes sense.
.
Not really. It's more a matter of the same line of research leading to FTL depending on what kind of superscience the local setting allows. So, no they wouldn't want to do that.
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Old 07-02-2019, 02:39 PM   #4217
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Default Re: New Reality Seeds

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Try this...

Al-Mansur-3

(SNIP)

Basically, a crossover of Swashbucklers and Old West with loads of Arabian Nights and Cliffhangers flare. Pirate Ships, raids through the jungles, spies, and darrng-do. Yankee Filabusterers can get into the act too. Bring your sword, pistols, and Bowie Knife!
Yoink!

This is a seriously cool alternate timeline. :)
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Old 07-02-2019, 04:15 PM   #4218
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Yoink!

This is a seriously cool alternate timeline. :)
Thank you kindly. I wanted that 1940s Saturday matinee feel with extra glam and danger.
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Old 07-02-2019, 08:00 PM   #4219
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IMHO any Axis power takes over the world reality is extreme but some elements do ring true. After all there was that Nazi Rally in Madison Square Garden.

Worlds like Ezcalli play the 'diverged so far back (508 BCE) that to expect anything resembling our world of [year] (1848 in this case) is implausible' card.
Reich-5 was the most extreme 'Nazi win' timeline, and thus the least believable. Though at least it didn't have an outright divided America, including Japanese occupation, like Reich-5's inspiration, The Man In the High Castle. Even fans of the book (and I most definitely am one) admit that its alternate world is highly unlikely (as is the alternate-alternate world in The Grasshopper Lies Heavy).

Reich-2's 'Cold War with Nazis' is more possible.


Ezcalli was 'GURPS wants to use GURPS Aztecs' and generally do a non-white dominant timeline. Which is understandable - in a book with Reich-5, Dixie, Roma Aeterna, and Gernsback, GURPS Alternate Earths is definitely heavy with not just Caucasian-dominant timelines, but ones more racist than our own/Homeline (which is true of alternate history in general).

At least they pointed out how extreme it is.


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Veneto-3
GURPS Hot Spots Renaissance Venice has an alternate world with Venice-focused divergence, building a canal connecting the Mediterranean and Red Sea in 1472.

For some reason, it is named "Moro-2" - I have no idea who/what/where "Moro" refers to (the word is not used anywhere else in the supplement).
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Old 07-02-2019, 11:10 PM   #4220
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For some reason, it is named "Moro-2" - I have no idea who/what/where "Moro" refers to (the word is not used anywhere else in the supplement).
Presumably somebody from the Moro family - one of the prominent noble families of Venice, providing an assortment of Doges, Governors of Cyprus, prominent members of the Council of Ten etc, for several centuries.
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