11-01-2010, 01:13 PM | #501 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
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Bill Stoddard |
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11-01-2010, 01:19 PM | #502 | |
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Canada
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
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Now, if my mother had popped me out and intentionally abandoned me when I was 5 because she couldn't be bothered, and another person took me in and raised me to who I am now, then I would swear off all relations of my biological mother. Genetics are all fine and dandy for a species, but they mean squat to me as an individual. |
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11-01-2010, 01:35 PM | #503 | |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
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11-01-2010, 01:43 PM | #504 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
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(b) Try the following cases: Infomorph alpha kills someone, and then clones itself a million times, all of the clones sharing memory of the killing. Infomorph alpha kills somebody, transfers itself to a different cybershell, and has itself edited in the process to remove the memory of killing and even the ability to kill. Informorph alpha sees a need to kill somebody, cannot overcome its own programming to obey the law against murder, but has itself cloned and edited, creating a version of itself that's not compelled to be honest; the clone, infomorph omega, then sees the same need to kill its enemy, and does so. In each case, who is guilty of murder or of some other crime? Bill Stoddard |
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11-01-2010, 01:53 PM | #505 | |
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
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But more robust ? After we have two (or a million) Vickys, with whom is your spouse married ? Whom does it have to pay maintenance, or who owes it maintenance ? Who is a legal heir of whom ? Who goes to work, and who gets the salary ? Which one is prime minister of ukraine ? What happens to Vicky-Biological´s property when he uploads and a dozen ghosts are made ? |
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11-01-2010, 02:23 PM | #506 | |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
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Pays maintenance according to the criteria of the contract. A very literal reading of a very naïve (pre-ghosting style) contract will probably result in a case where paying the maintenance to any one ghost will fulfill the criteria of the contract. But in the age of ghosting, contracts should be written with such criteria as to not break down (e.g. maintenance only paid to the instance with the longest existing uptime as measured by the official clock of the jurisdiction). With work and pay, it gets even more heavily into the difference between identification and authorization. Just like vicky-15yo and vicky-16yo are both vickies, but only the latter is authorized to matriculate into a university, so only the one doing work should be authorized to take the money. As things get more and more complicated, laws start needing a more and more genericness. |
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11-01-2010, 02:29 PM | #507 | |||
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
If properly designed, then no less robust than for infomorphs.
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What would the verdicts look like under your system? |
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11-01-2010, 02:41 PM | #508 | |||
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
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And again, with whom is the spouse married ? What happens to property owned by the original ? Quote:
I am the landlord. Which one is the tenant ? The wordline model has no problems in all those cases. Each new copy is a new person, and destructive uploading is death. The only problem we have is whether we define copying as asexual reproduction and postulate parent-child legal relationships, or whether we treat it like spontaneous generation and postulate no legal relationship at all. |
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11-01-2010, 04:35 PM | #509 | |||
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
I was talking about the fact that a mind which remembers doing a kill, and possibly even having motivation for further kills (in case of a serial murderer or just an all around violent thug) walks the streets.
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(I wonder what's your answer if you are an employer and you find out one of your employees is a super with Duplication. Do you write new contracts each time the fella duplicates/merges?) As above. Quote:
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11-01-2010, 06:49 PM | #510 |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
I said that I would comment more on my view of consciousness. Here it is.
To me, the essential fact about consciousness is <i>viewpoint</i>. A consciousness is a focusing of attention on some object or activity. But "focusing of attention" means that we have a unified field of information processing going on. Information in one part of the field can induce a different part of the field to aim at a different object. Two different information processing centers can be part of the same consciousness if they are linked together with high enough bandwidth, so that it routinely happens that information being processes in one migrates to the other, and vice versa. My left and right hemispheres contribute to one consciousness because my corpus callosum has fairly high bandwidth; my brain and another person's are linked through lower-bandwidth channels—speech, facial expression, posture—and do not support a single consciousness. Signal strength is finite, so to have a lot of subsystems interacting with high bandwidth, it helps to have them physically unified in a single organ, such as the brain. But a physically unified organ, and for that matter the physically unified organism that houses it, naturally has a single worldline. So there's a natural link between unity and continuity of consciousness, and continuity of worldline. All of this is a product of the actual facts about how information flows through human nervous systems, and between them. A technology that provided sufficiently high bandwidth might change that. But I don't see that THS has such a technology. Bill Stoddard |
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