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Old 10-05-2019, 09:05 AM   #1
Sorenant
 
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Default [Pyramid 3/52] LT Armor Design: Mail vs Pi (Guns)

The Mail construction gives -2 or -20%, whichever is worse, to DR vs Crushing but it provides full protection against Piercing.
In a fantasy setting it would be possible to make an orichalcum mail with DR 18, enough to be considered proofed against modern (non-AP) rifles. It's fantasy, so a lot of logic is out of the windows, but is it intended? Would such an armor be like the mithril shirt from LotR, with each ring so small it looks like a fabric and has no apparent holes for a bullet to pass through?
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Old 10-05-2019, 10:06 AM   #2
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Default Re: [Pyramid 3/52] LT Armor Design: Mail vs Pi (Guns)

Even very ordinary mail doesn't have holes large enough for most bullets to pass cleanly through. They will have to break some links, just like a blade would.

Here's some mail with a ruler for scale
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/5vkAA...WEu/s-l400.jpg

So yes, for a magical material that's more than twice as strong as TL7 steel, why not DR 18?
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Old 10-05-2019, 10:36 AM   #3
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Default Re: [Pyramid 3/52] LT Armor Design: Mail vs Pi (Guns)

I was thinking less about passing right through the links and more in the line of the bullet "biting" into the links and transferring its energy on a small number of rings instead of getting deflected by a plate's curvature and also facing a solid mass of metal. Not unlike arrow/bolt vs mail/plate, I know mail was effective against such projectiles, but less so than plate, so my intuition was that a fantastic mail would be less effective than a fantastic plate in stopping a bullet.

On the other hand, just as you said, it's a magic material so it might just be strong like that.
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Old 10-05-2019, 01:17 PM   #4
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Default Re: [Pyramid 3/52] LT Armor Design: Mail vs Pi (Guns)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorenant View Post
my intuition was that a fantastic mail would be less effective than a fantastic plate in stopping a bullet.
For a given weight of metal, you're right. Using those rules (Pyramid 3/52), the weight factor of plate (0.8) vs mail (0.9) means that plate armor of the same mass provides 12.5% greater DR than mail.
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Old 10-05-2019, 02:07 PM   #5
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Default Re: [Pyramid 3/52] LT Armor Design: Mail vs Pi (Guns)

Realistically, people make bulletproof steel plates and as far as I can tell no-one even tries to make bulletproof mail, and there's probably a reason for that, though I'm not immediately sure what it is.
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Old 10-05-2019, 03:09 PM   #6
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Default Re: [Pyramid 3/52] LT Armor Design: Mail vs Pi (Guns)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin View Post
For a given weight of metal, you're right. Using those rules (Pyramid 3/52), the weight factor of plate (0.8) vs mail (0.9) means that plate armor of the same mass provides 12.5% greater DR than mail.
Mail CW in the article seems rather low, a DR 3/1* mail in LT weights half as much a plate of equivalent DR. Playing with the values a little, I found that the following values gives results slightly closer to LT: Plate CW 0.65 and CC 5; Mail CW 0.975 and CC 1.6; Scale CW 1.3 and CC 0.8.
This gives: DR 3 plate costs $1023.75 and weights 8.19 lbs, DR 3/1* mail costs $491.4 and weights 12.285 lbs, DR 3/2* scale costs $327.6 and weights 16.38. Scaling in LT is not linear, so higher DR version using this will result in generally light and cheaper gear.
It's not related to the question at hand but I wanted to share the idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Realistically, people make bulletproof steel plates and as far as I can tell no-one even tries to make bulletproof mail, and there's probably a reason for that, though I'm not immediately sure what it is.
As far as I know, bulletproof plates involves plackarts which acts like spaced armor and the curvature aided in deflecting the bullet. I don't think a mail would have those benefits, but I'm not professional to say anything with confidence.
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Old 10-05-2019, 03:40 PM   #7
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Default Re: [Pyramid 3/52] LT Armor Design: Mail vs Pi (Guns)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Realistically, people make bulletproof steel plates and as far as I can tell no-one even tries to make bulletproof mail, and there's probably a reason for that, though I'm not immediately sure what it is.
Making plates is easier, with modern manufacturing.
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Old 10-05-2019, 05:15 PM   #8
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Default Re: [Pyramid 3/52] LT Armor Design: Mail vs Pi (Guns)

A shotgun with bird shot would likely be unexpectedly effective.
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Old 10-05-2019, 05:33 PM   #9
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Default Re: [Pyramid 3/52] LT Armor Design: Mail vs Pi (Guns)

Fantasy guns based on haquebuts and arquebuses are throwing up to 18-19 mm ball. So you might want to check if something that large is still piercing at the velocity it is going.
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Old 10-05-2019, 06:10 PM   #10
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Default Re: [Pyramid 3/52] LT Armor Design: Mail vs Pi (Guns)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorenant View Post
I was thinking less about passing right through the links and more in the line of the bullet "biting" into the links and transferring its energy on a small number of rings instead of getting deflected by a plate's curvature and also facing a solid mass of metal. Not unlike arrow/bolt vs mail/plate, I know mail was effective against.
GURPS has separate blunt trauma rules for that.
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