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Old 09-03-2019, 06:45 PM   #11
sparky00
 
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Default Re: In defense of hovertanks

[QUOTE=ColBosch;2282845 Ogre is not, and has never been meant as, a serious examination of potential future warfighting. Its entire design process stemmed from practical concerns: how many counters MetaGaming could fit into what would become a MicroGame.[/QUOTE]

Concur.

I have always suspected, from the day i bought my first copy of Ogre back in the late 70's, that it was intended as something of a rebellion against the hugely complex wargames that were in their heyday at the time.

I imagine Mr. Jackson saying something along the lines of "what if we made the absolute simplest hex & counter wargame possible? No 85-page rulebook, minimal terrain effects, no Line Of Sight, 1 D6 roll to resolve combat, No 28-column CRT, no auxiliary tables or factors. No 16-phase turn sequence. Quick to learn and quick to play. Can we do this and still have it be a fun game?"

Clearly, I believe the answer to that is a resounding yes. Despite having a relatively small player base, Ogre is alive and well, and still undergoing active development. I cant think of another hex & counter wargame from that time that is still growing ( maybe ASL?). After 40 years of development, its rulebook is still only 32 pages, and that includes the GEV rules. Its still fast and fun to play. That's why I believe Ogre is the greatest hex & counter wargame of them all. Its still around and being developed and enjoyed 40 years later, despite not being loaded with technical minutia.
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Old 09-03-2019, 07:40 PM   #12
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Default Re: In defense of hovertanks

One other reason (mildly OT) Ogre is the greatest hex & counter wargame of them all - Its beautiful!

From the mounted maps & colorful counters of the ODE/O6E generation, to the new minis, playmats and books, it is all high quality and just looks great.

And those big 19mm dice just feel good in the hand.

The Bullet Dice may not match the feel, but more than make up for it in coolness.

Enough for now.
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Old 09-03-2019, 09:57 PM   #13
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Default Re: In defense of hovertanks

Heh. The original edition wasn't quite as nice-looking.
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Old 09-04-2019, 05:05 AM   #14
sparky00
 
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Default Re: In defense of hovertanks

I know - I bought it soon after it came out. Black & white map - craters were just black hexes and ridges just heavy hex lines. Counters of thin cardstock that you had to cut out yourself. Very minimalist compared to the AH games of the day, with their big mounted color maps & pastel die-cut counters.

I also bought the 3rd edition when it came out- the first time I ever bought the same game twice. I didn't care for the cover art as much as the original, but the pocket box was a welcome addition & the color map was awesome. I literally wore that map out. The slick map surface and cardstock counters made these games risky to play- the slightest air movement could wipe out a game. But it was fast & fun and no moral checks, LOS or broken machine guns to worry about.

No need to worry about maintaining comms & target locks in an environment where nukes are going off. Just remember to fire everything, avoid the craters full of boiling, radioactive goo and decide if its worth it to ram that disabled missle tank...

Last edited by sparky00; 09-04-2019 at 05:13 AM. Reason: Distraction.
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Old 09-05-2019, 08:18 AM   #15
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Default Re: In defense of hovertanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColBosch View Post
I do so wish this was true, but no, GEVs are definitely hovercraft in Ogre. The plenum skirts of the PanEuro models are dead giveaways. The type of machines you're describing are WiGEs - "wing in ground effect" - vehicles. WiGEs and hovercraft together form the more general propulsion class of ground effect vehicles.

No, I don't think Ogre's hovertanks need defending because, simply, it's a game. Having units that are faster than the Ogre allows for more complex strategies than "move unit into range, shoot, next turn die." That SJ chose to make said units armored fighting hovercraft is irrelevant (but do note that the Viet Nam war had just ended, and armed hovercraft were deployed in that conflict). Ogre is not, and has never been meant as, a serious examination of potential future warfighting. Its entire design process stemmed from practical concerns: how many counters MetaGaming could fit into what would become a MicroGame.

Well said sir well said.
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Old 09-05-2019, 11:31 AM   #16
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Default Re: In defense of hovertanks

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Originally Posted by Misplaced Buckeye View Post
With that in mind then the next step comes to mind of increasing the size of the drone to something more offensive; ie a GEV and having that GEV crewed via VR and linked up with the drone scout.
Who's to say the LGEV isn't an unmanned drone more often than not? It makes more sense from a human cost point of view. (Not that human lives seem that valuable in this world anyway . . .)

D.

(Yes, I've pondered this previously!)
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Old 09-05-2019, 01:43 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by wolf90 View Post
Who's to say the LGEV isn't an unmanned drone more often than not? It makes more sense from a human cost point of view. (Not that human lives seem that valuable in this world anyway . . .)

D.

(Yes, I've pondered this previously!)
Life is cheap. Near-AI drones are expensive.
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Old 09-05-2019, 03:51 PM   #18
TheAmishStig
 
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Default Re: In defense of hovertanks

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Originally Posted by ColBosch View Post
Life is cheap. Near-AI drones are expensive.
Takes me back to what got my whole big stompy robot obsession started...MW2: Mercenaries.

Kill the meat, save the metal.
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Old 09-14-2019, 08:42 AM   #19
tomc
 
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Default Re: In defense of hovertanks

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Originally Posted by ColBosch View Post
Life is cheap. Near-AI drones are expensive.
How about if you flip that around? Later in The War, as economies shift and qualified people get killed off, there is a flood of low level autonomous units, with human crewed tanks thinly scattered in among them.

The autonomous tanks have slightly reduced stats, and must follow a set of predetermined rules, while the human piloted ones are free to act as they see fit. I'm thinking something like the Solitaire Ogre rules (card driven as I recall).

Maybe the human controlled units move first, and have to anticipate the behaviors of the autonomous ones.

Would this be fun, or too fiddly?
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Old 09-14-2019, 04:45 PM   #20
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Default Re: In defense of hovertanks

You've just found a way to connect Ogre (believable) and Rivets (not so much).
Until now.
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