[Basic] Advantage of the Week: Arm ST/Lifting ST/Striking St

[Flyndaran]

One very important thing is that it includes a spreadsheet to do all those calculations for you.
You can get as detailed and realistic as you want, or not. One of my all time favorite articles.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

One very important thing is that it includes a spreadsheet to do all those calculations for you.
You can get as detailed and realistic as you want, or not. One of my all time favorite articles.

I think it's interesting, but not the most generally useful of Doug's Articles. I've needed it exactly once.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I think it's interesting, but not the most generally useful of Doug's Articles. I've needed it exactly once.

That's fair. It started out as something ridiculously simple - maybe three equations that were very basic math to try and make bows a bit nicer.

But that turned out to only work for bows of a constant length. Shortbows had the opposite trend that they should. Hmmm.

And the Low-Tech playtest mentioned tubular bows, and High-Tech had compound bows and exotic materials.

Hmmm.

So I tried to put them all together. It started as maybe 2,500 words, ended up as basically a physics paper at 11,000.

You'll want to use it if the current bow damage stats make your head hurt AND actually matter in your game.

All the arguments about armor penetration? They mostly go away when a fairly powerful bow does 1d+1 or 1d+2 damage.

I'm drafting a GURPS-Day post on Lifting vs Striking ST though, for bows, and why I did it that way. look for it tomorrow if you care.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

You'll want to use it if the current bow damage stats make your head hurt AND actually matter in your game.

Sure, and that's probably the problem. I'm running a) supernatural game in an over-the-top wainscot setting, b) a realistic horror game with mostly guns and c) occasional DF games. Of those only Blight Years cares about realism. It's actually a detriment to the other two. If bows show up in Blight Years, it still probably isn't worth the effort (also that's rapidly becoming "the game that Doug's rules built" already).

All the arguments about armor penetration? They mostly go away when a fairly powerful bow does 1d+1 or 1d+2 damage.

Well, they go away for bows. They don't go away for melee weapons.

Part of this too is a lack of player buy-in, which is a problem I seem to be coming back to a lot, lately. "The Deadly Spring" might be really useful if I had players that wanted very specifically customized bows in DF or whatever, but I don't.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Otaku

Is there rules for buying HP via Hit Location?

Technically if you get Injury Tolerance: Independent Body Part with both limitations makes it [7] so each body part has it's own HP. Sounds like a cool campaign switch for certain campaigns, such as Fallout or other games that do that.

[DouglasCole]

[QUOTE=sir_pudding;1825516]Sure, and that's probably the problem. I'm running a) supernatural game in an over-the-top wainscot setting, /QUOTE]

I might have put this on my blog, but I remember saying somewhere that if you got close enough to use a bow or a club in a modern game especially, you freakin' DESERVE the higher-than-realistic damage. It's like a reward for doing something CARRRAAAAAZZZZYYYYYYY.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

I'm drafting a GURPS-Day post on Lifting vs Striking ST though, for bows, and why I did it that way. look for it tomorrow if you care.

Bow ST indeed works with different sub-strengths depending on whether TDS is in play.
Just a minor note on firearms MinST though:

Originally Posted by PK

Okay, I've had a chance to go over this with Kromm in detail. Here's the ruling. I'll even cast Summon Molokh for it:

When weapons have a minimum ST requirement, can I add Arm ST, Lifting ST, and/or Striking ST to my ST for this purpose?

Arm ST always helps if it applies to all arms necessary to use the weapon. It's rather useful! If you have a two-handed weapon, however, and only one arm has the Arm ST, it doesn't help at all; always use the "weakest link."

Lifting ST helps with non-muscle-powered weapons, like firearms. The ST requirement for these weapons is primarily due to their mass, and Lifting ST helps with that. Their standard operation requires you to hold them steady, not to swing or a stab with them dynamically. (With some weapons, like heavy-recoil slugthrowers, Striking ST could be argued to help, but this kickback is still less of an issue than the weapon's mass -- thus, always use Lifting ST.).

Striking ST helps with muscle-powered weapons, from swords to thrown daggers to bows. The ST requirement for these weapons is primarily due to the need to use them dynamically -- you have to be able to swing, thrust, or pull with great force, which is what Striking ST is all about. (To some degree, Lifting ST could be argued to help, as it allows you to more easily support the weapon, but that's less of an issue than the need to attack with the weapon -- thus, always use Striking ST.)

So note that you can combine ST, Arm ST, and one of Lifting ST or Striking ST for the purpose of meeting a weapon's minimum ST requirement -- but you'll never combine Lifting ST and Striking ST.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

Technically if you get Injury Tolerance: Independent Body Part with both limitations makes it [7] so each body part has it's own HP. Sounds like a cool campaign switch for certain campaigns, such as Fallout or other games that do that.

I've thought of twisting that advantage so that robots only take injury from head shots aka CPU damage.

[Kalzazz]

I've usually found modern combat to be a fairly close range affair in games I run far more so than fantasy, usually involving full automatic fire at less than 10 paces. Modern combat just tends toward closer ranges.

[Kalzazz]

Often on guns one of the issues is ammo consumption, I like to have my characters carry 20 attacks worth of ammo, if you are dual wielding ROF nodded to 10 BARs that is 400rounds of .30-06, so the 20 ST to tidily one hand the BAR also helps haul ammo for it