Psionic Powers: Question about a build

[whswhs]

I'm looking at the Exoteleport ability in GURPS Psionic Powers. It bases the Affliction on the advantage Warp (Blind Only, -50%; Exoteleport,
-50%; Modified Capacity, 1 lb., -30%; Reliable 10, +50%) [20].

Why is Blind Only there? The RAW definition of Blind is that you teleport to a set of coordinates without seeing or having visited the destination, at -5 to the IQ roll (which the first 5 levels of Reliable buy off). But why can't you use Exoteleport, for example, to teleport a weapon from an adversary's hand to the floor in front of you, which you can see perfectly well?

Is the idea that the object you're teleporting can't see where it's going, and therefore is teleporting blind (to it)? But the object also doesn't know the coordinates where you're sending it, and therefore can't be making an IQ roll, even at -5. In fact, the object may have IQ 0 and not be able to make IQ rolls in the first place. So the IQ is that of the teleporter, and the knowledge of the destination is that of the teleporter—and the teleporter may well be able to see the destination.

This seems kind of confusing. What's the logic I'm missing?

[weby]

I think it is to distinguish Psionic teleportation from the magic kind. Basically psionics is supposed to give the science feel and having to specify distances+vectors or coordinates instead of "home" or similar feeling based thing is supposed to be part of that.

Only the blink is without blind and that seems to be supposed to model a reflex uncontrolled use of the ability where the subconcious does that figuring of coordinates for you to find any safe spot..

Edit: So for the teleport sword question: you would need to be able to fix the coordinates clearly enough for that teleporting to be possible and that seems perfectly fine if the actual though is "teleporation is the ability to move things from known coorninates X1,Y1,Z1 to known coordinates X2,Y2,Z2 and not a spell of "Moving object X to location named Y or seen by you".

[whswhs]

That sounds like a possible interpretation, since I see that Autoteleport indeed also has Blind Only, -50%. On the other hand, it doesn't seem to be spelled out. In fact, Exoteleport says, "You must be able to see the subject or know exactly where it is," even though the build has Blind Only. Is that an inconsistency?

And on the other other hand, the Warp is applied as an Affliction. Don't Afflictions require you to be able to see the target? I didn't think you could say, "I want to afflict whatever is at 30 yards from me, 30° tp the right from directly in front of me, and at ground level." So that would seem to imply "you must be able to see the target" and full stop. What Blind gives you is not the ability to affect a target you can't see, but the ability to send it to a place you can't see.

[weby]

True, my bad, as the thing giving the ability is affliction. So in effect you must see the source(and get range penalties according to affliction to it), but then must know the coordinates of the target to teleport it there.

So to teleport the sword you need to see it(affliction), Roll a success at the range penalty to target(malediction 2),it needs to fail it's HT save vs your success by, (malediction 2) so it gets the warp. Then you need to estimate closely enough the distance from it to you and the height needed so it does not drop from too high and roll the IQ roll to warp it.

Edit missed malediction in first version, changed above.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by weby

True, my bad, as the thing giving the ability is affliction. So in effect you must see the source(and get range penalties according to affliction to it), but then must know the coordinates of the target to teleport it there.

Hmmm. But the text says "You must be able to see the subject or know exactly where it is." Can you do Affliction on something you can't see or feel, going purely by geometric coordinates?

The Blind in the writeup, which lets you use coordinates, applies to the Warp, but that refers to knowing the destination, not to knowing the subject's location, which is what you need for the Affliction. And in any case, it's Blind Only, so if it did apply to the Affliction, seeing the subject wouldn't help (though I suppose you could see the subject and do range finding!).

A lesser point is that by the strict letter of the law, it would seem that you have to define the destination by coordinates relative to the subject, not relative to yourself.

I'm having trouble saving the appearances between the descriptive writeup and the build. . . .

[fdenzer]

I think the intention of applying both of
reliable and blind only
and reducing typical time spent down to a single turn in combat
is to create a new ability.

Pointwise, they might compensate each other on the IQ-roll, but the actual target seems different:
Warp may require you to see the target, or give you a bonus/malus for bad visual connection to the hex just behind you for example.
blind only causes the ability to disregard line of sight, visual hinderances or the user's facing.

Et voilá, simpler rules for a more elagant, less situational teleport.


As for giving autoteleport to a sword, let's hope it's sentient.
Exoteleport or other transmogrification-spells sound like nice Psi Powers, though.

[weby]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Hmmm. But the text says "You must be able to see the subject or know exactly where it is." Can you do Affliction on something you can't see or feel, going purely by geometric coordinates?

Not according to Malediction as it says: "It can target any victim you can see or otherwise clearly perceive." So it would need a perceived target.

The Blind in the writeup, which lets you use coordinates, applies to the Warp, but that refers to knowing the destination, not to knowing the subject's location, which is what you need for the Affliction. And in any case, it's Blind Only, so if it did apply to the Affliction, seeing the subject wouldn't help (though I suppose you could see the subject and do range finding!).

It does not apply to the afflict as clerarly indicated by the statistics.

A lesser point is that by the strict letter of the law, it would seem that you have to define the destination by coordinates relative to the subject, not relative to yourself.

Or just estimate if that is close enough. But yes the effect is relative to the original location.

I'm having trouble saving the appearances between the descriptive writeup and the build. . . .

The only miss-match I can see is the lack of need to see or perceive the target if you know the coordinates.

Text description simplified: You must be able to see the subject or know exactly where it is...
Statistic block based thing(from malediction description): You must see or perceive the target...

The rest of the statistics block is in agreement with the descriptive text. The descriptive text does not however explain the feature of blind only where you must specify the target with a vector relative to the origin.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Can you do Affliction on something you can't see or feel, going purely by geometric coordinates?

A base Affliction is a ranged attack, so no.

Or presumably "no". Curiously, I didn't see anything in the Ranged Attack section on B372 saying you had to be able to see your target. Just that it had to be in range. One of those points that seemed too obvious to think to write down, I suppose. The Aim Maneuver does explicitly state that you have to be able to "see or otherwise detect" your target, but Attack does not. Though the existence of Targeting senses implies that you can't target targets without one.

A Malediction, on the other hand, is explicitly noted not to be a ranged attack, and by its description "works more like a Regular spell". Per B239, those spells allow coordinate-based targeting (ex: "one yard on the other side of this door"), much like we're talking about as a possibility for Exoteleport, as well as by subject ("the closest person in the next room"; "George, who I know is around here somewhere"), without any need for direct perception.

The parallel between Malediction and spells is undermined by that "more like" instead of just "like", though the "more like" could be read as including the coordinate targetingm but not the by-subject form. More like Regular spells, but not completely like them. But that claim is further undermined later on B106 where it says a Malediction "can target any victim you can see or otherwise clearly perceive." It would take a pretty broad interpretation of "perceive" to include all of the Regular spell targeting methods, instead of just an extended set of senses. The word is probably meant to include any sort of Targeting sense.

[PK]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I'm looking at the Exoteleport ability in GURPS Psionic Powers. It bases the Affliction on the advantage Warp (Blind Only, -50%; Exoteleport,
-50%; Modified Capacity, 1 lb., -30%; Reliable 10, +50%) [20].

Why is Blind Only there?

Both to simplify the ability and to keep the cost down.

Using Blind Only means that the user doesn't have to deal with two different modifiers based on whether he can see the destination or not; everything is a simple, flat roll. And it is also the cheapest way to build a teleportation power that has the capability of teleporting to an unseen location.

Removing Blind Only (and compensating commensurately by removing 5 levels of Reliable) would make the power more expensive by 25 points and require the user to be able to see the destination. The only real improvement is that the FP cost to buy off penalties becomes 1 FP per -1 instead of 2 FP per -1.

But why can't you use Exoteleport, for example, to teleport a weapon from an adversary's hand to the floor in front of you, which you can see perfectly well?

You can. "Blind Only" doesn't mean that you cannot use the ability if you can see the destination! It means that all destinations, seen or unseen, are treated as a blind teleport.

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by PK

Both to simplify the ability and to keep the cost down.

Using Blind Only means that the user doesn't have to deal with two different modifiers based on whether he can see the destination or not; everything is a simple, flat roll. And it is also the cheapest way to build a teleportation power that has the capability of teleporting to an unseen location.

Removing Blind Only (and compensating commensurately by removing 5 levels of Reliable) would make the power more expensive by 25 points and require the user to be able to see the destination. The only real improvement is that the FP cost to buy off penalties becomes 1 FP per -1 instead of 2 FP per -1.

You can. "Blind Only" doesn't mean that you cannot use the ability if you can see the destination! It means that all destinations, seen or unseen, are treated as a blind teleport.

I wonder if you can provide some insights into how/why you joined the affliction and the warp thru a Feature.