Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-08-2010, 09:08 PM   #51
vitruvian
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Blunt Trauma and Skulls

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobmuller View Post
TQ. It finally penetrated[LOL]
Nah, I've been arguing that side all along, I just like repeating myself.
vitruvian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2010, 09:19 PM   #52
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: Blunt Trauma and Skulls

Quote:
Originally Posted by vitruvian View Post
Nah, I've been arguing that side all along, I just like repeating myself.
"I'm nothing if not redundant. I also repeat myself."
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 04:29 AM   #53
jacobmuller
 
jacobmuller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Not in your time zone:D
Default Re: Blunt Trauma and Skulls

Quote:
Originally Posted by hal View Post
OK, riddle me this... {butchered} House rules be the name of the game as it were ;)
The {butchered} body of your post is pretty much what I was asking about. I like to get the RAW straight in my head before I do any HR stuff and applying the armour in layers appeared to mean that the Innate DR had no effect; might even mean wearing a helmet resulted in injury.

But I think the logic is:
The helmet's DR stops the damage;
But it can't stop the damage from causing BT.
Your innate DR, however, can stop damage that would result in BT;
So you subtract the innate DR from the initial damage and then calculate BT.
The innate DR only comes into play to reduce damage not stopped by the worn DR.
__________________
"Sanity is a bourgeois meme." Exegeek
PS sorry I'm a Parthian shootist: shiftwork + out of = not here when you are:/
jacobmuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 05:56 AM   #54
Ze'Manel Cunha
 
Ze'Manel Cunha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Default Re: Blunt Trauma and Skulls

Quote:
Originally Posted by hal View Post
NOW we still have to account for the incoming 3 points of blunt trauma. At this point, the second layer of armor comes into effect - that of the skull's bone structure. Stops 2, leaving 1 point through the skull of the incoming blunt trauma.
No, you're losing the forest for the trees, what you're saying is basically that if you had someone stab you in the head through your armor for impaling damage and 3 points penetrated, that you'd take 12 points of brain injury which you'd then subtract the 2 points of skull armor from.

Now, just because you haven't multiplied damage by 4x, you're still subtracting DR after you've suffered injury by subtracting it from blunt trauma injury and that's a clear misread on your part.


As an example:

You get hit in the torso by 4 points of imp damage, you take 8 points of impaling injury, you do not subtract DR from the 8 points of impaling injury.

You get hit for 4 points of ct damage, you take 6 points of cutting injury, you do not subtract DR from the 6 points of cutting injury.

You get hit in the vitals for 4 points of imp damage, you take 12 points of vital injury, you do not subtract DR from the 12 points of vital injury.

You get hit in the brain for 4 points of damage, you take 16 points of brain injury, you do not subtract DR from the 16 points of brain injury.

In the same way, when you take 4 points of brain trauma to the brain you're already past DR, you are taking 4 points of blunt trauma injuries to the brain, you do not subtract DR from the 4 points of brain injury.


Basically, by the time you're describing it as "Blunt Trauma" you've already gotten past the DR penetration phase and are strictly talking about final recorded injury.
Ze'Manel Cunha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 07:42 AM   #55
SuedodeuS
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Default Re: Blunt Trauma and Skulls

It's understandable to want to maintain the order of armor layers for purposes of realism, but to do so you need to think of things a bit... differently.

To treat Blunt Trauma as damage rather than injury is simple - for crushing, BT is a special damage type that ignores flexible armor and has a x0.2 modifier regardless of hit location. Injury rounds down. BT is a special linked effect that only comes into play when its "carrier" is stopped outright - and you only roll once for both (use the same value; for BT sources other than crushing, the linked BT effect is actually at half effectiveness).

Now consider 16 falling damage when you are wearing a DR 16 helmet. The helmet stops crushing damage, but as it's considered flexible here the linked BT damage ignores it. Now this 16 BT damage reaches the skull, which is rigid DR 2. It is reduced to 14 BT damage, and with the multiplier this is 2.8 injury. Round down to 2.

The effect is the same as if you just counted the rigid DR first, of course, so for simplicity you can get away with doing that. This exercise is simply to show how you could keep layering in mind without making it overpowered (treating the BT injury as damage to be reduced is overpowered in my mind, as it makes flexible-over-rigid more effective than rigid-over-flexible, despite this not realistically being the case - at least to my knowledge; it also makes every flexible armor foolishly designed, as making 1/6th of the DR rigid wouldn't make a huge weight increase or mobility decrease yet make the armor completely rigid in terms of functionality).
__________________
Quos deus vult perdere, prius dementat.
Latin: Those whom a god wishes to destroy, he first drives mad.
SuedodeuS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2012, 05:52 AM   #56
jacobmuller
 
jacobmuller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Not in your time zone:D
Default [UT] Re: Blunt Trauma and Skulls

Necromancy seems popular at present.
I've a brain DR of about 10 for this subject so just checking (yes, again {hangs head in shame, uses wrong size rawl plug and watches head bounce away down street}).
Foolhardy Trespasser is wearing a heavy-nanoweave hooded coat and a light nanoweave ski-mask; total DR39/13* on his skull.
FT takes a hit to the skull from a COP's 25mm payload rifle loaded with memory batons, or 10d+10 (0.25) Cr.
The average damage is 45, FT's skull DR comes out as 52 vs this Cr (60 including his skull DR2).

But that leaves Blunt Trauma and this is where I tend to go wrong: 45 - DR2 for his rigid skull, leaves 43/5 for 8HP worth of Blunt Trauma Injury?


In-setting COPs are allowed to use liquid propellant and like overkill but are only allowed "reduced lethality" unless "in response to potentially lethal force". This is not RL and COPs are not law enforcement.
__________________
"Sanity is a bourgeois meme." Exegeek
PS sorry I'm a Parthian shootist: shiftwork + out of = not here when you are:/

Last edited by jacobmuller; 09-16-2012 at 05:59 AM.
jacobmuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2012, 06:10 AM   #57
B9anders
 
B9anders's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Denmark
Default Re: [UT] Re: Blunt Trauma and Skulls

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobmuller View Post
Necromancy seems popular at present.
I've a brain DR of about 10 for this subject so just checking (yes, again {hangs head in shame, uses wrong size rawl plug and watches head bounce away down street}).
Foolhardy Trespasser is wearing a heavy-nanoweave hooded coat and a light nanoweave ski-mask; total DR39/13* on his skull.
FT takes a hit to the skull from a COP's 25mm payload rifle loaded with memory batons, or 10d+10 (0.25) Cr.
The average damage is 45, FT's skull DR comes out as 52 vs this Cr (60 including his skull DR2).

But that leaves Blunt Trauma and this is where I tend to go wrong: 45 - DR2 for his rigid skull, leaves 43/5 for 8HP worth of Blunt Trauma Injury?


In-setting COPs are allowed to use liquid propellant and like overkill but are only allowed "reduced lethality" unless "in response to potentially lethal force". This is not RL and COPs are not law enforcement.
I am struggling to make sense of this. What is your question/issue?

You really should make your numbers more clear. What is "about 10 dr"? What is "total DR39/13*" here? is the split for non-piercing? Is this total DR or added to your 'about 10 DR'?

I don't know what to make of "this Cr (60 including his skull DR2)" either. Is this damage? If so, why does it include skull dr?

I am gonna hazard a guess that your question relates to whether the Armor Divisor means an increase in blunt trauma or not. I'd say no from simple common sense.

Adding more suckage to your weapon (lowering the armor divisor) should not increase damage. Use the actual DR for calculating Blunt Trauma. I'd say the same for a higher armor divisor, tbh. Adding more potency to your attack shouldn't reduce Blunt Trauma efficiency either.
B9anders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2012, 08:35 AM   #58
Mr_Sandman
 
Mr_Sandman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: L.I., NY
Default Re: [UT] Re: Blunt Trauma and Skulls

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobmuller View Post
Foolhardy Trespasser is wearing a heavy-nanoweave hooded coat and a light nanoweave ski-mask; total DR39/13* on his skull.
FT takes a hit to the skull from a COP's 25mm payload rifle loaded with memory batons, or 10d+10 (0.25) Cr.
The average damage is 45, FT's skull DR comes out as 52 vs this Cr (60 including his skull DR2).

But that leaves Blunt Trauma and this is where I tend to go wrong: 45 - DR2 for his rigid skull, leaves 43/5 for 8HP worth of Blunt Trauma Injury?
I think I get this; let me try.

The DR 13 is multiplied by 4 because of the .25 Armor Divisor to give an effective DR 52 vs this attack. The innate skull DR 2 becomes 8, giving a total effective 60, 8 of which is rigid and 52 flexible. Am I right so far?

If so, then the 8 rigid is subtracted from the 45 damage for purposes of determining Blunt Trauma. The remaining 37 is used to give a Blunt Trauma of 7. This is already injury, so there is no wounding modifier. But there is still a -10 to the knockdown roll.
Mr_Sandman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2012, 09:39 AM   #59
jacobmuller
 
jacobmuller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Not in your time zone:D
Default Re: [UT] Re: Blunt Trauma and Skulls

Quote:
Originally Posted by B9anders View Post
I am struggling to make sense of this.
'about 10 DR'?
Sorry - humour: I was inferring I am remarkably stupid (dense of brain) on this subject:)
FT's clothing provides DR39 vs Pi/ DR 13 vs Cr and is flexible (DR39/13*).
His Skull is DR2. The memory baton has an armour divisor of (0.25), ie multiply DR by 4, so he has total DR60 v's this Cr attack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Sandman View Post
I think I get this;
then the 8 rigid is subtracted from the 45 damage for purposes of determining Blunt Trauma. The remaining 37 is used to give a Blunt Trauma of 7. This is already injury, so there is no wounding modifier. But there is still a -10 to the knockdown roll.
Aha, I forgot to apply the (0.25) armour divisor to the Skull DR before I worked out the blunt trauma. Thank you!
__________________
"Sanity is a bourgeois meme." Exegeek
PS sorry I'm a Parthian shootist: shiftwork + out of = not here when you are:/
jacobmuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
blunt trauma, falling, hit location, injury

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.