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Old 01-17-2019, 09:47 AM   #31
Alonsua
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Default Re: What would be the skills to obtain sovereignty?

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Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
The people employed by a corporation are citizens of one or more states. A corporation that purported to seek statehood would run up against the citizenship rights and responsibilities of those employees.
Double nationality.
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:49 AM   #32
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Default Re: What would be the skills to obtain sovereignty?

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Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
So, I would say that a space station can declare independence and maintain it as long as they are able to.
I would say the same.
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:53 AM   #33
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Default Re: What would be the skills to obtain sovereignty?

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The nice thing about zero-gravity structures in space is that nothing restricts their growth in any direction and transformation into anything, if there's the money, the workforce and the materials.
Exactly, anyway I found an outpost station, the margrave-class, with a value of about 380 billion dollars and a stable population of 90000 people. I suppose that the larger the population, the less justifiable a nuclear bombardment will be in the twenty-first century.
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Old 01-17-2019, 10:03 AM   #34
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Default Re: What would be the skills to obtain sovereignty?

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The corporation is already the de facto power in the United States, now it plans to claim Antarctica for itself.
By that, you make sure the Chinese and the Russians will never recognize anything and will do everything they can to sabotage all of these projects. If the corporation is nothing but a front of US interests, it's bad; if it actually controls the USA, it's worse.

Note BTW that claiming all of Antarctica guarantees the enmity of Britain, Australia, France, Argentina, Norway, New Zealand, and possibly Brazil and Chile.

Both the USA and Russia have not laid any claim to Antarctica, but they both have reserved the right to do so. The Treaty specifically allows this. If the USA, or a supposedly US corporation, lay a claim, surely Russia will claim the same spot.

Claiming a part or all of Marie Byrd Land would be acceptable, since it's unclaimed by anybody, but if the corporation deploys there anything that can be construed as a military presence, it will be in violation of the Antarctic Treaty and provide every enemy with a flawless UN-mandated intervention to forcibly remove it. If it doesn't deploy any military presence, then the settlement will suffer from a catastrophic accident quite soon.
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Last edited by Michele; 01-17-2019 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 01-17-2019, 10:11 AM   #35
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Default Re: What would be the skills to obtain sovereignty?

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Exactly, anyway I found an outpost station, the margrave-class, with a value of about 380 billion dollars and a stable population of 90000 people. I suppose that the larger the population, the less justifiable a nuclear bombardment will be in the twenty-first century.
A state really opposed to the idea wouldn't fire a nuclear-tipped missile, not immediately. It would on the one hand openly organize a UN consensus for a blockade, and on the other hand covertly carry out sabotage. Meanwhile it would also launch a propaganda campaign of its own, about the dangers this orbital anarchy pose to all the Earth's inhabitants.
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Old 01-17-2019, 10:37 AM   #36
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Default Re: What would be the skills to obtain sovereignty?

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Claiming a part or all of Marie Byrd Land would be acceptable, since it's unclaimed by anybody, but if the corporation deploys there anything that can be construed as a military presence, it will be in violation of the Antarctic Treaty and provide every enemy with a flawless UN-mandated intervention to forcibly remove it. If it doesn't deploy any military presence, then the settlement will suffer from a catastrophic accident quite soon.
This type of issues should be able to be solved with a negotiation represented by Diplomacy and Law (International) contests, either to change the treaty or to create a new one and repeal the previous one. It is necessary to mention that the corporation, counting on the support of the United States, is able to deploy armed forces equivalent to those of the United Kingdom by itself, with a military budget of about thirty-two billion dollars and high-tech equipment.
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Old 01-17-2019, 10:37 AM   #37
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Default Re: What would be the skills to obtain sovereignty?

FWIW and IIRC one of the requirements for sovereignty today is that other sovereign powers recognize your sovereignty.
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Old 01-17-2019, 10:55 AM   #38
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Default Re: What would be the skills to obtain sovereignty?

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Originally Posted by Žorkell View Post
FWIW and IIRC one of the requirements for sovereignty today is that other sovereign powers recognize your sovereignty.
Not necessarily. The Montevideo Convention states:
"The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states."

However, in practice, recognition by other states is important. The question is which states, how many of them, and what manner. Can your new sovereign territory issue recognised passports? Restrict immigration? Sign treaties? Engage in trade? Have voting or observer status at the UN?

Again, the question is, what does the OP want with this claim of sovereignty? Just saying "sovereign" is insufficient.
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Old 01-17-2019, 11:06 AM   #39
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Default Re: What would be the skills to obtain sovereignty?

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Again, the question is, what does the OP want with this claim of sovereignty? Just saying "sovereign" is insufficient.
The corporation wants its own army, to begin with, but also ability to legislate and enforce legislated.

General idea:

2016
  • PC sweeps the elections and is named president of the United States with the support of 64% of voters.
  • After overcoming the success of the previous campaigns PC-Party achieves 376 seats in the Lower House and gets a majority in the Upper House with 58 senators.
  • With the support of the United States and in an action unprecedented in the history of humanity, the corporation begins global negotiations to be recognized as a subject of international law with rights and obligations analogous to those of the States.

2018
  • The corporation puts Eden (the largest space station in the world) into orbit, with an endowment of more than ninety thousand people.

2019
  • Thanks to the support of the United States the corporation is recognized as a sovereign entity and is granted certain privileges of extraterritoriality in relation to its facilities.
  • The United States requests the revision of the Antarctic Treaty and the corporation transfers part of its activities to Antarctica and reserves territorial rights following the example of Ecuador when wielding the defrontation theory.
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Old 01-17-2019, 11:12 AM   #40
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Default Re: What would be the skills to obtain sovereignty?

To begin with, and this is clear to me, players should be successful in Propaganda rolls to run meme campaigns and purchase the following perks representing each of them:
This will come to represent the actions for the purpose of shifting the public opinion in its favour and publicizing the initiative.
  1. PC-Party Campaign (Assuming control of United States Congress).
  2. Vote for PC (Take on United States Presidency).

Then they should have reasonable success in, at least, rolls against Politics. With this they will assume control of the country.
This will represent the elections.

After that they should be successful in Propaganda rolls to run another meme campaign and purchase the following perk:
  1. Defend sovereignty for Eden (the corporation is declared a sovereign entity).

And finally have some degree of success in different rolls against Diplomacy and Law (International).
This will represent international agreements, alliances and negotiations.

With all the above, they should be able to declare the corporation as a sovereign entity.

Last edited by Alonsua; 01-17-2019 at 11:21 AM.
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