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Old 01-16-2019, 04:38 PM   #11
The Colonel
 
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Default Re: What would be the skills to obtain sovereignty?

I would suggest regulatory capture of a small nation, possibly with the patronage of a larger one - for example in the style of one of the C19 great companies. The trick might actually be getting equivalent dispensations from several great powers. Parlaying that sort of situation into extra-territoriality would be tricky and would probably include the equivalent of NGO status as well...
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Old 01-16-2019, 05:17 PM   #12
Alonsua
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Default Re: What would be the skills to obtain sovereignty?

After reading some comments I have come up with that the organization has the following by now:

Historical “bests” in:
Finance.
• To make a profit and requests for funding or for a corporate merger.
Law (International).
• To frame the actions as legally proper or mandatory.
Politics.
• For electoral and revolutionary politics.
Propaganda.
• To change public opinion and promote the idea.

World’s bests in:
Accounting.
• To leave false financial records.
Administration.
• For requests to large organizations.
Diplomacy.
• For administrative politics and to reach agreements or find allies.
Public Speaking.
• For making speeches.
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Old 01-16-2019, 11:23 PM   #13
whswhs
 
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Default Re: What would be the skills to obtain sovereignty?

When you come right down to it, in the last analysis, sovereignty is not about the legal forms. The sovereign entities in the world are states; and they are sovereign because they have enough coercive power so that other states don't want to get into fights with them, or because they have alliances with more powerful states that other states don't want to get into fights with. You have sovereignty if you can make war to defend it. The structure of international law formalizes this as a kind of exclusive club, one that it's very hard to get into. And that club has never admitted corporations; its members are "Holy State, or Holy King, or Holy People's Will," as Kipling put it.

Corporations, in the real world, virtually never have or attempt to gain sovereign powers. They may pressure weak states into defining things in their favor; they may bribe strong states to use their coercive powers for the corporation's benefit. But if Apple or General Motors or Tata attempted to go around saying, "I am The Law," some sovereign state would crush them. So you need to look for a way a corporation can make itself a target too hard for governments such as the United States, China, or Germany or the European Union to attack, without having it become visible that attaining that level of power is its goal until it actually HAS that poweróbecause until it does, its aspirations in that direction make it a threat that must be brought under control.
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Old 01-17-2019, 01:12 AM   #14
johndallman
 
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Default Re: What would be the skills to obtain sovereignty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Corporations, in the real world, virtually never have or attempt to gain sovereign powers. They may pressure weak states into defining things in their favor; they may bribe strong states to use their coercive powers for the corporation's benefit.
Another, strictly hypothetical way, would be for a number of states to find it advantageous for a corporation to be sovereign in some manner. The current example is the Sovereign Military Order of Malta, which achieved this status through a long and complex history, and being harmless.

However, this route is basically incompatible with having significant military or commercial power, so it's unlikely to be any use to the OP.
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Old 01-17-2019, 01:39 AM   #15
Daigoro
 
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Default Re: What would be the skills to obtain sovereignty?

It depends on how sovereign you want to be.

Prince Leonard was a wheat farmer with no training in Finance, Law, Politics or Propaganda, and no military power of any sort, yet Hutt River Principality has been arguably sovereign for 49 years, not having paid any taxes to the Australian government in that time.

On the other hand, Taiwan has all the skills, military power and national alliances mentioned above, yet is not sovereign by various metrics.
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Old 01-17-2019, 02:35 AM   #16
Polydamas
 
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Default Re: What would be the skills to obtain sovereignty?

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Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
It depends on how sovereign you want to be.

Prince Leonard was a wheat farmer with no training in Finance, Law, Politics or Propaganda, and no military power of any sort, yet Hutt River Principality has been arguably sovereign for 49 years, not having paid any taxes to the Australian government in that time.

On the other hand, Taiwan has all the skills, military power and national alliances mentioned above, yet is not sovereign by various metrics.
That sounds like some of the cases in Canada where everyone knows that a certain rural community organized around a church practices polygamy, but as long as everyone is of age the government does not want the hassle of seriously enforcing the law and being accused of persecuting a religion. Or Sealand: the British crown is not landing the SAS on the platform, but nobody important recognizes Sealand passports.

"Sovergnity" is a term politicians use to make people excited, but in practice it is always limited. Medium-sized countries find that if they start to move in a direction which the USA/China/Russia/EU does not approve of, there is a strong and immediate response, while the big powerful countries are too big to have and act upon a single will.
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Old 01-17-2019, 04:35 AM   #17
Michele
 
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Default Re: What would be the skills to obtain sovereignty?

It's not a matter of skills, but of resources and choices.
The best bet today for an immensely wealthy corporation would be to build its own space station in orbit.
Then launch a propaganda campaign calling it the homeland of the brave, smart and free. Welcome very carefully selected "citizens" and claim the place is and must be free from anybody else's control. The inhabitants are their own rulers, etc.
To those countries whose public opinions don't particularly cherish this freedom rhetoric, offer advantageous deals as to zero-gravity technology.
Arm the place with conventional weapons and be ready in case somebody comes knocking. If you can defend it, you can keep it. Especially since this is a place nobody has already claimed.
Bribe minuscule states to recognize your sovereignty. Big players, and space-going players, won't do that, but some recognition is better than nothing and minuscule states have been bribed for this purpose in the past.

This far you have not violated the Outer Space Treaty, but just don't deploy mass destruction weapons on that station; that would be exactly the thing that might push the USA or China to use force. Building the station on the Moon or other existing celestial body would also be in violation.
It will also help if your launching pad on Earth is in one of the poorer states that are not parties to that treaty, and there are some that are conveniently equatorial. Make sure the corporation leaders are citizens of that state to start with.
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Old 01-17-2019, 04:54 AM   #18
Malfi
 
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Default Re: What would be the skills to obtain sovereignty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
When you come right down to it, in the last analysis, sovereignty is not about the legal forms. The sovereign entities in the world are states; and they are sovereign because they have enough coercive power so that other states don't want to get into fights with them, or because they have alliances with more powerful states that other states don't want to get into fights with. You have sovereignty if you can make war to defend it. The structure of international law formalizes this as a kind of exclusive club, one that it's very hard to get into. And that club has never admitted corporations; its members are "Holy State, or Holy King, or Holy People's Will," as Kipling put it.
Another way would be you being 1000+ point super and other states deciding to treat you as a sovereign state. ;)
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Old 01-17-2019, 04:54 AM   #19
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Default Re: What would be the skills to obtain sovereignty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michele View Post
It's not a matter of skills, but of resources and choices.
Having founders, shareholders and employees with certain skills is a resource. And doing this will require millions of people with high levels at the skills mentioned in this thread.
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Old 01-17-2019, 05:37 AM   #20
Alonsua
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Default Re: What would be the skills to obtain sovereignty?

20,000 inhabitants Rock Snake Mobile Industrial Colony (SM+14, $94.42 billion) or 31,000 inhabitants Class V Orbital Spaceport (SM+15, $180.32 billion)?
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