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Old 11-18-2013, 07:31 PM   #31
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Originally Posted by Nosforontu View Post
Over all a nice summation of what has been discussed on the forums. One small addition that we are planning on using in our campaigns is that we are changing the guideline slightly for the dividing line between greater and lesser effects is if your character has access to ability via a power talent at the correct level this ritual will be a lesser effect for you as long as you mimic the power Essentially if a Pyromancer can within the campaign has the correct Power Talent level to purchase 5d6 attacks or transform into fire elementals to replicate it as a Ritual is a lesser effect even if he has not purchased that individual power yet.

Secondly and this one is a bit more vague If you have a racial template transforming into other racial templates of a similar category shall be considered a lesser effect . Essentially its a case of as a GM if a player is already a werewolf I don't much mind if he wants to essentially swap out his racial template for werebunny instead, nor do I mind if Lycanthropes RPM casters become the go to guys for rituals that transform people into animals or lycanthropes.

What that werewolf could not do however is turn a person into vampire as a lesser effect...the local vampire witch however finds it to be a relatively easy ritual to perform however. While both of them would want to talk to a Tiefling if they wanted to be transformed into a Demon.
Thanks! Interesting thought. I have no idea how that would work in game though. Giving away free Greater effects can have wonky effects.
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Old 11-18-2013, 07:48 PM   #32
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Thanks! Interesting thought. I have no idea how that would work in game though. Giving away free Greater effects can have wonky effects.
It could and right now it is a rule without much table experience behind it just yet. However it seems to me to be an expansion of the dividing line of can an ordinary person do it to instead becoming can an ordinary vampire [Daeva, Brujah etc] do it (or any other racial template super character do it that you are a member of. Followed by the clause that an ordinary vampire is not an ordinary werewolf for magical purposes

As far as giving away greater effects for free...only when you dont consider that the specific framework I am looking at would already have a 150-200 point buy in for the racial template to get the free greater effect in the first place. Or that even with magic as powers tie in they are by possessing Magical Power X already at a point where "an ordinary member of magical tradition x can do this".

With a bit of further consideration I would probably stand by my idea for the racial transfomation style effects, but might put the dividing line for magical tradtion powers/disciplines as being equal to half the power of your current Discipline level as the cap to give a bit more reward to the players who have spent points on the abilities.
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:31 PM   #33
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It could and right now it is a rule without much table experience behind it just yet. However it seems to me to be an expansion of the dividing line of can an ordinary person do it to instead becoming can an ordinary vampire [Daeva, Brujah etc] do it (or any other racial template super character do it that you are a member of. Followed by the clause that an ordinary vampire is not an ordinary werewolf for magical purposes

As far as giving away greater effects for free...only when you dont consider that the specific framework I am looking at would already have a 150-200 point buy in for the racial template to get the free greater effect in the first place. Or that even with magic as powers tie in they are by possessing Magical Power X already at a point where "an ordinary member of magical tradition x can do this".

With a bit of further consideration I would probably stand by my idea for the racial transfomation style effects, but might put the dividing line for magical tradtion powers/disciplines as being equal to half the power of your current Discipline level as the cap to give a bit more reward to the players who have spent points on the abilities.
That's a valid way of doing that, but if I were doing this. I would figure out the point cost using Control (Magic). Let's say "Vampire Magic" is a Occasional category, so 15 points. The vampire can only affect himself, not others. So that's a +0% modifier. You'd need 6 levels to reduce the Greater Effects multiplier by a level, so 90 points Then I'd treat it as a alternate ability of the template itself. So assuming the template costs over 90 points this ability would then be worth 18 points. I'd round that up to 20 and call it a Unusual Background (Vampiric Magic). Include that on the template and you've got a real justification for being able to do crazy awesome vampiric magic stunts on the cheap.
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:57 PM   #34
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That's a valid way of doing that, but if I were doing this. I would figure out the point cost using Control (Magic). Let's say "Vampire Magic" is a Occasional category, so 15 points. The vampire can only affect himself, not others. So that's a +0% modifier. You'd need 6 levels to reduce the Greater Effects multiplier by a level, so 90 points Then I'd treat it as a alternate ability of the template itself. So assuming the template costs over 90 points this ability would then be worth 18 points. I'd round that up to 20 and call it a Unusual Background (Vampiric Magic). Include that on the template and you've got a real justification for being able to do crazy awesome vampiric magic stunts on the cheap.

I like it so far it seems to be hitting the right button for me since really once you drop x hundred points on being a vampire the fact that you can occasionally turn yourself into a lich instead as a spell does not seem all that powerful an effect (assuming of course the lich template is equal to or less than the vampire template).

I supect that I will need to play around with enhancements/limitations a bit and to make sure it covers everything that I need it to but it sounds like a good base mechanic to represent what I want.
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:58 PM   #35
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I like it so far it seems to be hitting the right button for me since really once you drop x hundred points on being a vampire the fact that you can occasionally turn yourself into a lich instead as a spell does not seem all that powerful an effect (assuming of course the lich template is equal to or less than the vampire template).

I supect that I will need to play around with enhancements/limitations a bit and to make sure it covers everything that I need it to but it sounds like a good base mechanic to represent what I want.
:-) Glad I could help.
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:01 PM   #36
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:-) Glad I could help.
So was I, this might be a good fit for represnting something like the benifits of joining the Circle of the Crone. Figure one Level of Vampire (Control Magic) per level of their discipline power and thats one power out of the the six per discipline level that I am trying to hit right now.
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:02 PM   #37
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I really dislike the idea of encouraging people to buy Allies as Advantages instead of using RPM spells to summon Elementals and other pets

Though it may just be my love of my 'Campaign Baseline RPM summoned Ally is throw weight = X' RPM Allies house rule
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:30 PM   #38
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So was I, this might be a good fit for represnting something like the benifits of joining the Circle of the Crone. Figure one Level of Vampire (Control Magic) per level of their discipline power and thats one power out of the the six per discipline level that I am trying to hit right now.
Cool. :-)

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I really dislike the idea of encouraging people to buy Allies as Advantages instead of using RPM spells to summon Elementals and other pets

Though it may just be my love of my 'Campaign Baseline RPM summoned Ally is throw weight = X' RPM Allies house rule
Why? It's easier to simply buy them as a ally instead of conflubberating the rules and trying to get them to work. Buying a zombie/skeleton ally for necromancers just makes sense.

That said, in my own games I use a new modifier, Summoned, which contains extra energy cost and relies on a static point level to determine what can be summoned and how difficult that is.

Power Additional Energy Cost
25% +4 energy
50% +8 energy
75% +12 energy
100% +20 energy
150% +40 energy
+50% +5 energy

For multiple beings, multiply the cost by the number of beings. If there are more than five, use the following:

Group Additional Energy Cost
6-10 beings x6 energy
11-20 beings x8 energy
21-50 beings x10 energy
11-100 beings x12 energy
x10 +x6 energy


So summoning a minor devil might look like:

Summon Imp
Spell Effects: Lesser Control Spirit + Lesser Sense Spirit + Lesser Strengthen Crossroads
Inherent Modifiers: Summoned.
Greater Effects: 0 (x1).

This spell conjures a minor devil, a imp to do the caster's bidding for the next day.

Typical Casting: Lesser Control Spirit (5) + Lesser Sense Spirit (2) + Lesser Strengthen Crossroads (3) + Duration, 1 day (7) + Summoned, 25% of total (4). 21 energy (21x1).


Summon Imp Horde
Spell Effects: Lesser Control Spirit + Lesser Sense Spirit + Lesser Strengthen Crossroads
Inherent Modifiers: Summoned, Group.
Greater Effects: 0 (x1).

This spell conjures a gaggle of a minor devils, six imps to do the caster's bidding for the next day.

Typical Casting: Lesser Control Spirit (5) + Lesser Sense Spirit (2) + Lesser Strengthen Crossroads (3) + Duration, 1 day (7) + Summoned, 25% of total, Group, 6-10 (24). 41 energy (41x1).


This assumes a game where the static point total is about 250. If I was constantly summoning the same being, I'd still buy it as a ally if I could.
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:36 PM   #39
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That said, in my own games I use a new modifier, Summoned, which contains extra energy cost and relies on a static point level to determine what can be summoned and how difficult that is...
Very, very nice and to be honest not something I was even looking at yet with the rules.
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:39 PM   #40
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Very, very nice and to be honest not something I was even looking at yet with the rules.
It needs some fine tuning and will probably end up in a article of its own, but it works for now.
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